A64Pilot

I’ll ask my Son to send a pic of a Thrush shock, it’s a stack of rubber biscuits, andI’ve heard some replace them with a Combine spring. Crop dusters will do anything. ‘I had one bring an aircraft into the repair station, I looked in the cockpit and saw he had replaced the torque meter, now it’s just an oil pressure gauge, but a very accurate one as the torque limit is 58.7 lbs at 2200 RPM or 64.5 lbs at 2000 RPM. This guys torque meter said John Deere on it. I tired my best to get him to understand that you can’t just do that.

Without getting Mooney’s drawing, I don’t think you possibly could. And you have definitely modified the type design, because your biscuits are too soft or too hard etc, and it’s possible that the aircraft wouldn’t pass the drop test, and that of course changes max gross. It’s actually a can of worms,one would think the best design would be one soft puck and others getting harder, so you initially have a soft compliment suspension, that stiffens up when needed, and as I interpret the reg, you could do that, but how well would it really work? The whole owner produced parts is actually nuts, nothing stops you from building a crankshaft, or how about a high lift cam? The HUGE overriding major big deal in manufacturing aircraft is conformity, everything to the last detail must meet the type design, the drawings. ‘Owner produced parts throws that out the window, I think it well intentioned, but expect it to change. I think it was meant as a way to keep old orphaned aircraft flying. Neighbor has a Stinson Reliant, now where do you think he can get parts? I have a 46 C-140, it’s easy, but if you have an old Taylorcraft maybe not, with OPP you can keep the historic aircraft flying.

It’s always been that way. Maule uses an OMC relay for their starter relay, but they don’t jack the price up as much. ‘Beechcraft door locks I’ve been told cost hundreds and come from Home Depot, they are cheap desk locks. ‘In the example of these off the shelf purchased parts what makes them aircraft parts is that they have been indoctrinated into the manufacturers quality control system. You hear all the time what makes an aircraft alternator an aircraft part is that in manufacturing every single piece part is inspected and the auto ones it’s every now and again, but airplane parts get special treatment. Well that’s not really true. Auto parts are purchased and QC logs the certs, the box or maybe the part gets a QC stamp and its an aircraft part. ‘Unfortunately it’s become pretty common to jack parts prices through the roof in order to make the plant profitable, but very often they are actually losing business I never could get the idiot that owned the plant I worked at to understand that if you jack the prices up high enough, you don’t make any money, because you don’t sell any parts. People learn the sources of supply and buy direct and or if the price is high enough just about anything becomes repairable, and people would specialize in “repairing” flight controls etc when there wasn’t an original part left. You see that in Ga with exhaust systems and engine baffling and a few others, engine mounts, welded landing gear assemblies and well bunches of things are “repaired” but try to find any of the original part. ‘Oh, we got skads of parts quotes, for insurence, but never sold any parts, or usually didn’t anyway.

You see, I have been an Aircraft manufacturer for 15 years so I understand what the FAA is saying, you provide QC by inspecting the part AFTER manufacture, you can’t inspect something that doesn’t exist yet. But you have to have something to inspect to. The drawing provides that as well as the tolerances the part is required to meet, as is, I doubt any of his parts can meet drawing specs because he states no tolerance, and when no tolerance is stated, none exists and holding .001 with an elastomer is tough and surely unnecessary Everything in an aircraft manufacturing facility is “bought in” nuts, bolts, cotter pins, everything. often it’s just checking “certs” which provide traceability of the parts, but anything made for us meant the drawings came out and each part was inspected IAW the drawings. Many, many parts were supplied. the throttle and prop cables were supplied by a boat parts supplier in Fl, the brake master cylinders came from NAPA, they were I believe Studerbaker truck master cylinders that we modified slightly and installed rubber bits thst were compatible with 5606. But all of it was QC’d or inspected when it arrived at the plant. Pic of my Son, by his hand you will see four Master cylinders, those are the Studabaker truck parts. I never knew Studabaker built a truck, and astonishingly they are widely available through NAPA.

If I understand the question and I may not, but in my opinion no Its not a matter of getting the language right, thats what a lawyer does, and we are talking about mechanics here. ‘It’s a matter of participating in the production of the part, so you need to be involved in its design, supervising its production or maybe quality control. ‘Well design is tough as it’s already designed, and I doubt your traveling to S Africa to watch it be molded and cooked, but quality control is easy, a quick visual to ensure it’s bonded, not cracked, get the calipers out and measure it and ideally he supplies a statement of its durometer. Then there is no question that you have been involved with the production of this part, and it took you maybe a minute of your time, and your probably going to give them a good look over anyway. ‘I’d make a quick list of my inspection points and keep that along with the part drawing in the aircraft maintenance records. ‘I stay away from the word manufacturing because for some reason the FAA does, they keep calling it producing, and the person making it the producer, there must be a reason why. If you build an experiment airplane, your the manufacturer, not the producer?

If your really asking for advice or what would I do if I wanted to use these parts, I’d take his drawing and add some tolerances to it maybe + or - .020 or something, because the way it is now the parts can’t vary even .001 because he specs to the third decimal, likely because a calculator derived that from a metric equal. But if a part is only .001 out they way the drawing is now, it doesn’t meet spec and isn’t usable, and I’m sure these things don’t have to be that precise. ‘But by adding in some tolerance I have changed the drawing specifications, and I would provide quality control for the parts and “buy” them in when I received them, by measuring them and ensuring they meet tolerances, I am providing quality control, which is one of the five things you can provide and make it an owner produced part. ‘Then I would make the logbook entry exactly like in that link I provided But in all honestly as having had a lot to do with an aircraft with elastomer landing gear biscuits, my concern is that there is no durometer spec for the parts on the drawing, so they could be marshmallow soft or rock hard. I’m certain Mooney’s parts spec a durometer, or I’d bet lunch they do anyway. With Thrush part of the landing gear drop test required the biscuits to be tested and within the drawings specs for hardness, just as the tires had to be inflated to spec pressure. How hard or how soft the biscuits were mattered greatly to when something broke. According to my logbook. my 41 yr old airplane had its biscuits replaced for the first time three or four years ago, and they appear to be in new condition now, so if they only last say ten years, and if they cost $150 ea and there are 11 of them, then that’s $1650 or $165 a year, I can handle that. what bothers me is $1,000 for an off the shelf relay, or $500 for an off the shelf switch

Two things, OK maybe three Your first sentence the drawing has to be owner produced and the drawing has to precede the part, in other words the part has to be made to the drawings specs, not the other way around, and by the producer sending you a drawing that’s complete clearly is not an owner designed or produced part, you signing it doesn’t make it your design Your second sentence, your absolutely correct, you just stated why this is not an owner produced part, no I’m not saying it would be legal, I’m saying if you choose to go ahead and purchase these parts and claim that you designed the part, at least have an original drawing. ‘None of you is pretending to actually participate in the manufacture of this part, yet you choose to act as though it’s an owner produced part. Your third statement having a lawyer draft a letter that you sign doesn’t make it an owner produced part either. ‘There are five ways it can be a owner produced part and none of them are sign a form letter or a supplied drawing. You guys are wanting your cake and eating it too, none of you have answered why your won’t make the logbook entry that you produced the part I’m not going to convince any of you. that’s obvious, but I do believe many who are not responding may be giving it consideration. ‘All of our insurence policies I’m sure require that the aircraft be maintained in an airworthy standard, it may behoove you to ensure that they are. For those that consider PMA and TSO etc to be nonsense, there is a category of aircraft just for you, and many of them are actually pretty good aircraft, you should should sell your Certified Aircraft and build one of them, then you don’t have to worry about picky IA’s and A&P’s anymore and you can choose the parts you like

It’s a Gann performance overhaul, approx 400 hours and maybe 6 years. Why?

Similar but maybe not the same as he says his voltage is stable, which isn’t possible if the amperage is swinging, like that, so if his voltage is stable ,then it’s an indicator issue in my opinion. Here is mine yesterday, it comes and goes, I’m pretty much most likely down to the pins in the cannon plug or the VR. Just really don’t want to spend $500 on a VR and it not fixit if I can help it. Especially when every trouble shooting guide I can find says it a power supply problem to the VR B3417D94-F093-4BE8-A13E-75FFDB2D0247.MOV

Any good mechanic is going to want to see “certs”, you know something like a yellow tag, especially for a part a owner supplies, and even then the logbook entry will usually state, “installed owner supplied xxx” The yellow tag ensures the airworthiness of a part, that’s why most of us have a folder full of them or a bunch of them stapled in the logbook. ‘At the repair station I kept a file for each aircraft, and copied logbook entries work orders and yellow tags etc, made the FAA inspector happy, and covered the Companies behind. By making that entry, you supply the “certs” Why don’t you want to make the entry?

I don’t know what it’s called but you guys are trying to convince yourselves of something that isn’t true. ‘You have to provide the design, the producer sending you a design for you to send back to them where you fill in your tail number is not providing a design, plus the part is made AFTER the design is received, and to the drawing, not before. This producer is clearly manufacturing batches of parts that are stocked and ready to be shipped, or they certainly are holding themselves out to be. ‘I gave you guys a way out, it’s in the link I posted. Basically someone is going to have to clam it’s an owner produced part and put that in the logbook, which you are allowed to do, and in fact are probably required to do. You make that entry that’s in the article, that was written by a FSDO inspector, and that relieves an A&P from having to determine the source of the part, from that point on his liability is determining the airworthiness of the part and installing them correctly. But that would be true for any part, the biscuits from Spruce too. ‘If you want to use these parts, follow the instructions in that article. I wouldn't save any drawings either as I don’t see where that’s required and it would tough for me to try to prove that I produced that drawing, if some of you have the software and computer skills, then maybe copy it. But I woudn’t use the one sent by the producer, odds are pretty good if the FAA were ever to ask questions that they have seen it before, 99 times out of 100 they are responding to some kind of complaint, it’s very rare that they go looking, someone almost always tips them off. Often it’s the manufacturer of a PMA part, so the guy who makes the $100+ ones that Spruce sells sees a drop in shipments, hears about this guy i’m South Africa and reports him via the FAA’s Suspected Unapproved Parts program,if they make enough noise the FAA has to investigate, often an AD is eventually issued, maybe. ‘The Powerplant DER we used to use compared the FAA to a bear in the woods, you walk by the woods day after day all the time knowing there is a bear in the woods, but nothing happens. Then one day for seemingly no apparent reason the bear comes charging out of the woods and your running for your life, wondering why? https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/

Don’t Bonanza’s have some kind of wind spar inspection now? i don’t know the scope or frequency, but think there is one.

I’ve done that and was surprised at how little the oil flow there is. There is a theory, probably a good one too that low oil flow causes wear of the exhaust valves for lack of cooling and lubrication. Bad lifter you should be able to find with a big screwdriver. For those that haven’t tried it, place the tip on the engine and the plastic handle in your ear, it will conduct the sound through the screwdriver, of course a mechanic stethoscope is probably better, never had one myself.

Actually, your not required to comply with the SB, if you want to play that game, don’t do any of it, keep the old main bearings too. I’m all about saving a nickel, but by not replacing bearings and rod bolts etc when your there, is how you end up with a thrown rod etc. But I’m not posting this stuff for those that believe they know more than professionals that have spent most of their adult life in aircraft maintenance. ‘I’m posting it for the guy with the cracked case that started this thread and others that may be here one day, if you fly long enough odds are you will, maybe not a cracked case but something will have you splitting them, prop strike, bad cam etc. To not change bearings when your there and start with a new bottom end makes about as much sense as not repacking bearings when you change a tire. But as a Professional, not complying with that SB in its entirety is not only wrong, it’s cheating the customer, but it’s also crazy from a legal standpoint. Even ten years down the road let that engine have a failure like the 231 in Dawson Ga just did, and if that SB wasn’t complied with, and especially if there was a fatality or serious injury any slick Lawyer prints it out with all that RED printing and shows it to a jury, and your done, you have lost everything, and the Lawyer gets a down payment on a new Porsche and moves to the next personal injury case. So anyone you pay to R&R a case who doesn’t comply with that SB, because you know even though it says mandatory in big red letters, you don’t have to, not for part 91, isn’t a professional, same guy I guess that you people claim that will sign off an annual for a case of beer. For you guys that don’t TBO, replacing bearings on a mid time engine when it’s apart is how you get one to go way past overhaul, because ensuring the crank is within limits (a mid time Lycoming crank will be ) and installing new bearings is pretty much a new bottom end. If the crank is worn behind limits do you really want to fly it IFR over mountains or at night? Same for the cam and lifters. your not going to inspect for wear and catch the beginnings of a failing camshaft BEFORE it fills the engine with metal? This is your one chance to closely inspect everything while it’s laying there on the table out in plain sight, and to replace bearings etc that by design wear and start over with an engine that will likely go for many more years trouble free. ‘There are essentially three kinds of maintenance : scheduled, preventative and on condition. On condition is the guy who has a leaking water pump on his truck who drains the coolant, changes the pump and puts the old coolant back in and dives away thinking of how much money he saved, and a month later blows a radiator hose, or the thermostat sticks and overheats the engine and warps a head etc. ‘The Preventative maintenance guy, flushes the system to start with, and puts on new hoses, new thermostat, belts and coolant and doesn’t have another cooling issue for years, maybe decades, because he does preventative maintenance and changes coolant every few years, the on condition guy says leave it alone it’s working. You the owner gets to pick the level of maintenance performed, remember that when your IFR at night or flying the family to the Bahamas for a vacation.

There is also this Lycoming SB which I woud never not comply with, because doing so negatively impacts safety, and it requires disassembly of the connecting rods, removal from the crank, which you said you didn’t have done. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Mandatory Parts Replacement at Overhaul and During Repair or Maintenance.pdf A copy of the last sentence of that SB “Carry out the dimensional inspections in accordance with measurements and tolerances as listed in “Table of Limits” (SSP­1776) for all parts approved for use.” ssp1776 https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SSP-1776-5 Table of Limits - Complete.pdf

A mechanic has to determine the airworthiness of the parts they install, often that's paperwork, quite often it’s a visual inspection, and quite often it means measuring if that’s what it takes. It goes like this, you see a part that looks worn, how do you tell if it’s within limits? You measure it.

You should be able to verify the master switch and the voltage regulator etc by measuring the voltage at the field terminal on the alternator itself. ‘If you have a good steady field voltage with the engine running, then the master switch and VR etc and all wiring and connections are doing their thing, if it’s fluctuating, then you have a problem. I connected a long wire with a alligator clip and ran it back through the little window on the pilots side, so no body was up there near the prop.

I’ve removed and cleaned all the connectors on the alternator, and the battery too of course, everything but the field CB, as it appears to be a nightmare to get to. ‘I assume you get to it by removing the glare shield, but I haven’t looked to see what kind of job that will be either ‘I believe the alt was replaced when the engine was overhauled, which was about 400 hours ago, and I think I’ve determined it to be good.

An IA won’t or wouldn’t get involved except during the Annual, unless the A&P is also an IA. Read the article I linked to, as the owner / producer you need to make that write up in the logbook that is in the article. Again with the opinion, but in my opinion as an A&P with that logbook entry it’s not my job to determine if you really produced the part or not, your signing a legal document that you did, and in my opinion at that point my job is to ensure the airworthiness of the part, not it’s origin. ‘You covered the origin question with the logbook entry. ‘Just don’t come to me with a box of donuts telling me there is no paper work because you made them yourself. I can’t “buy off” the parts that way.

This explains a owner produced part pretty well.’ https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10387511/owner-produced-parts-how-they-affect-maintenance There is no way your making something already manufactured, in serial production and stocked for sale, an owner produced part. An owner produced part is forbidden to be sold, and these clearly are for sale. Maybe you could by taking a standard part or even a different aircraft part and having it modified. ‘You guys can of course do as you please, but I wouldn't try calling this an owner produced part, I’d try something else. Now in my opinion , not that my opinion means anything, but I bet an FAA inspector so long as you didn’t get all know it all on him, would be far more likely to look the other way on the Mite parts. ‘Why? because the factory or any other FAA approved part simply doesn’t exist, you have no other choice, other than trying to cook some donuts up in your kitchen, the safest thing is the South African parts. On the Klixon CB’s that didn’t have certs, I’d use them, I’d call them standard parts as I believe they are. Unless Mooney’s Klixon CB’s we’re built to a different spec than the standard ones,which surely they weren’t, but if they were then that would make them non standard

Buying fuel and lunch doesn’t even come close to paying for the airplane, FAA isn’t going to give you any grief for that. ‘You get into trouble by flying a plane load of people every Friday and return every Sunday down to Biloxi for example, and say they are sharing expenses. I know someone that does that in a Baron, FAA sort of jokingly calls them 134 & 1/2 operations, but unless there is a complaint they rarely pursue them. But if you add up the ownership expenses of owning an airplane fuel and lunch most likely fall below 50% , and that’s pretty easy to defend as sharing expenses. However there was this case maybe 15 years or so ago where someone accepted like $20 for a Stearman ride, hit wires, pax died and he ended up in prison, based largely on accepting the $20. Pax wanted to help pay the gas bill. ‘Anyone remember that? Found it, but it wasn’t $20 it was $8 and there is more to the story, as one charge gave precedence to others https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/july/01/after-the-accident

There have always been transportation choices for the Uber wealthy, Check what a Pan Am clipper ticket cost, or a Zeppelin. By comparison the Concorde was a bargain. There certainly won’t be SST for the masses in my lifetime or my children I don’t believe, but I am sort of surprised it’s not already here for the Billionaires of the world. ‘The energy expenditure to go that fast is just enormous.

It’s been about 15 years ago at Sun-N-Fun, I saw a 172 taxing at pretty high power in some of the rough stuff, dropped the nose gear into some kind of hole and dirt flew everywhere.engine of course came to a sudden stop. ‘Well I started to walk over to give him the bad news and ask if there was anything I could do, but before I got there five or six helpers showed up, pushed it out of the hole, he cranked it up and off he went. ‘I figured it was a rental

Are most gear ups from forgetting to put them down? If so then how frequently are they mechanical failure as in won’t go down? I assume some collapses are due to hard landings etc? Trying to get a sense of how often it’s a broken airplane as opposed to pilot error. ‘Coming from a C-210 as my last complex airplane, it was often the airplanes fault, at least to some extent.

Makes sense, I may quit for the day, but just went out and ran it up with a wire connected directly to the field terminal on the Alt to measure voltage, after startup when it was fluctuating, voltage was so whacked out the Fluke couldn’t even measure it, actually it measured a widely variable AC current, later after it settled down it measured a steady DC voltage that would decrease with RPM and increase with load (pitot heat). Which is about what I’d expect and voltage was roughly about 5 VDC. So hopefully that’s telling me that it’s not the alt, it’s either the VR of I’m feeding the VR unstable power. Just about every trouble shooting tree I’ve read goes there, high resistance connection to the VR and the VR getting unstable voltsge. ‘I’ll measure voltage at the cannon plug tomorrow and I may jumper the field CB by taking current from the cigar lighter and inputting it into the spade connector past the Master switch. I’m pretty confident that it’s not the Master so I may not bypass it.