1980Mooney

Here are some real world weights from EPI for a Lycoming in an RV. Although a Lycoming IO-360 only weighs about 300 pounds dry, once it is installed the firewall forward weight with frame/mount and cowling is closer to 450 pounds. DeltaHawk is quoting 357 pounds. It depends on what is in that total. The DeltaHawk will not need all the baffling that the Lycoming needs. Potentially the DeltaHawk cowling will be narrower and lighter. Maybe the installed weight penalty is way less than the 75 lbs quoted above. 200 HP Lyc IO-360-C1C6 Engine (complete) 293.0 Reduction Gearbox System Air Cleaner 3.0 Inlet Air Duct 2.0 Alternate Air Mechanism 3.5 Exhaust Headers 7.0 Exh pipes to Muffler 2.0 Muffler 5.0 Exh pipes from Muffler 3.0 Oil Filter + 1 qt oil included Oil Heat Exchanger + 1 qt oil 9.9 Oil Lines 1.7 Engine Oil 14.2 Coolant Heat Exchanger Expansion Tank Overflow Tank Coolant Lines Coolant (14 qt) Fuel Filter 2.2 Prop Governor 3.4 Vacuum Pump 2.5 Baffles / Ductwork 4.2 Propeller 55.0 Spinner 7.0 Cowling 22.0 Engine Mount 13.5 TOTAL 454.2

Per Lycoming A3B6D : Length: 33.3 in ; Width: 34.25 in ; Height: 19.35 in DeltaHawk : Length: 33 in ; Width: 24 in ; Height: 22 in Look how much narrower the DeltaHawk is - 10 inches. A new cowl can be much more aerodynamic with less frontal area. I bet that will yeild significant speed gains and economy vs. the stock cowling. They claim the same length.

If your W&B consists of several modifications over time, each one built up from the prior with "added" and "removed" equipment then you need all of them. If you only keep the last one, you have no support for the basis of the starting point in the calculation of the revised W&B.

The tubular wall thickness on the custom engine mount frame is very thin (three oil filled sizes getting progressively thinner as you go forward). Look for any signs of corrosion. The slightest corrosion can exceed the 10% airworthiness limit. Rocket Engineering will still refurbish/reweld/powder coat for $3-4K,

"When you repaint, don't use chemical stripper on any of the areas where there is sealer on the inside, the stripper will eat its way all the way through. Even through rivets that should be airtight. Use mechanical paint removal only there" Isn't that like everywhere there is fuel tank on the wing, top and bottom? Do you really think the paint shop will know? And if they do (or you mark the outline of the tanks) isn't that a lot of physical (and abrasive) paint removal?

If you change the thickness of the aileron skin, you will change the balance of the aileron. The balance weights will need to be changed. You will need to do both ailerons the same. I have never heard of it done.

That is not original. Look in your Logs for an entry complying with Service Bulletin M20-208B. The original insulation was a glass fiber that could retain water if the windows leaked. https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-208B.pdf

So if during the 3 hour visit, the expat spent an hour with the doctor and even if the entire $12.50 went to the doctor (forget about the cost of the meds and overhead), then the doctor at most could earn $12.50/hour. That's $25k/year. He could make more flipping hamburgers at McD's nowadays in the US. Now maybe the cost of living is lower and the pace of life is slower there so perhaps that would be a decent income there. However, if this was actually a doctor trained in modern medicine (maybe the expat was unwittingly just being treated by a tech in a white coat that got some info off of the internet) then the doctor could leave Thailand and come to the US making 10 times more money. That is exactly why properly trained physicians are leaving every country and coming here. The UK NHS reports that a third of jr. doctors plan to leave the UK as soon as they can find jobs in other countries. Surgeries are having to be continually postponed because of a doctor shortage. People die or those with money come to the US for treatment. The Countries Experiencing Doctor Brain Drain (createandlearn.net) Everyone thinks that they can get something for nothing. They want instant access to the best technology/skills/methods. They want unlimited optionality provided by multiple providers that they can choose like going to a cafeteria. And they don't want to pay much for it. And when they can't get ALL that then everyone wants a simple single explanation like blaming lawyers or politicians for all the problems/costs/shortcomings. There seems to be a lot of frustration in posts above that A&P's/maintainers/mechanics/IA's are not satisfied with "a case of beer like in the old days" for their services. Maybe the reality is that we, as pilot/owners, are not compensating our aircraft maintainers at a level commensurate with the value that they provide. That is the primary and real reason they are leaving GA or retiring. As Mike Busch said, perhaps the solution is to start paying $200/hour shop rates.

Not that you need more to do.....but while you are working with the cowl off, and especially if you have to repair the oil cooler, you might want to spend a little time treating the rust spots and touching up the chipped paint on your engine mount. An ounce of prevention.....

I also have a Missile. Before you make any changes to linkages look at the ailerons and rudder. You mention 2 issues. First you said you have slight roll to the left. The trailing edges of the ailerons will affect roll. See the Service Manual 27-94-00 Control Surface Trailing Edge. You can fine tune the roll - it is very sensitive to small changes. (and sensitive to anyone pressing on the edges of the ailerons for any reason) mooney.free.fr/Manuels M20J/M20J/Mooney Service Manuel M20J Vol. 1 of 2.pdf NEVER USE PLIERS - just use your hand I just press with my thumb or palm of hand (curling a little) either up or down as needed It doesn't even seem like you have bent any but you will notice that the plane flies differently It is trial and error Second you mention that you have some yaw to the right and need some left rudder. Do you need that all the time or just in cruise? look at the trailing edge of rudder. Has it been bent any? In my experience slight changes to the rudder (i.e. someone pressing on it) can affect yaw at cruise speed. I use the same process with the aileron to fine tune the trailing edge of the rudder.

Really sorry to hear this. This subject has been discussed before. Unfortunately, a gear-up incident while the plane is moving on the ground is worse than a clean gear up landing with the main and nose gear fully up and retracted. This is because of the Mooney landing gear design in which all the landing gear are linked together with push/pull tubes. And this is in addition to the costs associated with the typical gear-up landing with sudden engine stoppage. I will leave that for others. In this topic on June 4, 2020 Jerry 5TJ said "The gear pushrods get damaged in a gear collapse & that can be more damaging than a gear up. " And Steve W said "My gear collapse, on a 1994 M20J which was probably a bit more damaging since it was in-motion ranged from about $80k from the guy who got the job and then failed at it up to $120k from a reputable MSC. No one knows what the final bill would have been because I and the insurance finally just gave up and had them send me a check." All three landing gear are connected by push-pull rods and bell cranks to the single gear actuator. When one landing gear moves on a Mooney (regardless of electric or manual J bar) all 3 landing gear have to move due to the linked together design. One landing gear cannot move or collapse at a different time followed by the other two collasping unless there is mechanical physical damage to the linkages, bellcranks or push/pull rods. And if the landing gear actuator motor is not moving (either electrically or manually using the emergency pull) then none of the landing gear can move - if they do move or collapse then there has to be damage to almost all the push/pull tubes and bellcranks. In your case you said the nose gear collapsed followed by the mains. If the landing gear actuator motor is not moving the only way for the nose to first collapse back and then later the main gear to collapse in is if some combination of the connecting tubes, linkages or bellcranks are bent, buckled or sheared. It can't be just one linkage. There are two (2) push/pull rods that push the nose gear down. They connect to a single nose gear retraction truss and over-center linkage that holds the nose gear down. It is possible that the single linkage to the nose gear sheared or both push/pull tubes going to the nose gear buckled causing the nose to collapse but the mains should stay locked in place if they have proper preload (explained below). Something more must have happened to allow the mains to also collapse separately from the nose gear. Look at the first video. Also look at the second video - at about 0:40 seconds he starts the manual gear extension - slowly turning the actuator - all 3 gear move together. There are springs on the push/pull tubes that are connected to the bellcranks. These tubes/springs are preloaded when the gear are extended. The bellcranks are over center when the gear are down. It is the preload on the rods (tubes) that locks the over-center bellcranks which keep the landing gear from collapsing when they are fully down. The Service Manual has a section on proper adjustment. Chapter 32. mooney.free.fr/Manuels M20J/M20J/Mooney Service Manuel M20J Vol. 1 of 2.pdf Look at the third video - at about 1:15 they show the springs and talk about how important it is to have proper preload (it is a manual gear version but the function is the same). Look at the fourth video - It is a M20J. At 2:00 and 3:40 you can see the over center preload holding the main gear down. Also at 5:00 you can see the preload locking the mains down. Also you can see the nose gear locking down at 3:00. The fifth and sixth video show the actuator motor in operation. When the jack screw is extended the landing gear are up. When the jack screw is fully retracted the landing gear are locked down. I would suspect that the preload was not set right on each of the landing gear allowing the bellcranks to unlock and start moving - this first allowed the nose gear to collapse back followed by the mains to collapse inward. I think you can see,from the videos that in order for that to happen, both the front landing gear linkage has to be damaged/broken and a lot of those push/pull tubes and bellcranks for the main landing gear have to bend. (i.e. if the landing gear actuator jack screw is not moving then something has "gotta give") I fear that once they open up the belly and start the estimate you will find considerable internal damage and damage to the leg assemblies. From Mooney Service Bulletin MB20-344 "The gear legs are constructed of welded, chrome- molybdenum, tubular steel, heat treated for greater strength and wear resistance. Main gear attaching points have bushings installed in gear mounting box attached to wing spars. The steerable nose gear mounts to the cabin tubular steel frame. -NOTE - Heat treated components should NOT be repaired; replace them." The cost of all the landing gear components are high. Each link or tube is $600-800 if even available. The legs are much more. See Lasar Chassis — LASAR ADSBExchange shows your speed was good - not excessive. You did not say that you bounced. The question is why did this happen just now? Did someone make an adjustment recently to any of the landing gear linkages?

You are exactly right. Due to the mechanical nature of the Mooney design, if the marker that you can see thru the window in the floor is lined up then the gear are down - the actuator jackscrew is retracted, the shaft has turned, the bell cranks are over center and there is preload on all 3 gear. It doesn't matter if the green light is on or not or burned out. That is the simplicity and beauty of the Mooney design. Mechanically all 3 gear move together - if the shaft has rotated and the mark lines up then all 3 are down. (see shaft rotating in the second video) Tom Turner should have stuck to what he knows - Bonanza's.

It was in 1978 that the FAA last toughened the rules for mechanic log entries. (FAR 43.12). https://resources.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/articles_eaa/EAA_2014-08_a-mechanics-liability.pdf That was in response to the "wild wild west" culture of General Aviation flying in the 60's. I had a neighbor die in 1963 when about 10 ft of fabric came off the wing of his self maintained "on a budget" Taylorcraft. The inspection and reporting rules for mechanics/maintainers have not changed in 45 years. You may be right about "young and naïve". However it seems like the biggest gripe from the posts above is that they are most upset that they can't get something for nothing. i.e. - an inspection and certification that work was performed properly although totally unsupervised and quite frankly of unknown quality in exchange for a "case of beer - about $25 today - less then $10 back then....exactly nothing. As far as being a "sue happy" culture only today, how comfortable would you be going to a dentist or Lasik ophthalmologist or doctor or accountant or lawyer who was certified in exchange for a "case of beer"? If one of your family members was harmed would you tell them to just blow it off "like the past culture" or would you advise them to sue?

Litigious "now a days"? ... in "our current society". Next you will be saying that there was no litigation in General Aviation in the 70's and 80's. This makes it sound like something has changed in aviation. The litigious nature of General Aviation was far worse in the 70's and 80's. The sponsors of the GARA, the General Aviation Recovery Act claimed that litigation added $100,000 to the cost of every new GA plane in 1988 - that is equivalent to $260,000 today. That was the "litigious nature" of your "parent's (or perhaps your grandparent's depending on your age) society" that brought General Aviation to its knees. The IA's that are retiring today started their careers in the 70's and 80's - during the height of the litigious nature of the then "current society". It is easy and lame to blame everything on lawyers.

Hey @M20Doc - your favorite subject!!

Let's take the "modern J" $750K proposition a step further. Insurance will be $9-14K per year Hangar will be - let's say $5-6K per year Cost of money or lost earnings on cash invested - Let's say 6% on $750K or about $45k per year You still have an Annual - let's say $4K per year to start while in warranty Data subscriptions, Foreflight, etc - let's say $2K per year Assuming no loss in value over time, no depreciation (not realistic over time but anyway) that will cost you $65-70K per year to just sit on the ground. Oh you want to fly? ...Operating costs! - 10 gph, oil changes, training, landing/tiedown/temp hangar fees... - let's add another $10K per year maybe more. Spending (costing) about $75k per year to fly a "new" J (a small plane that can't get over weather or handle icing conditions, no air conditioning) may be fine for some. Of course that will buy a lot of charter flights too.

Spot on. Back in September 2020, Mooney made the announcement that " Wyoming-based financial group, U.S. Financial, announced that they had purchased an 80% share of Mooney International." All the news sources and publications quoted that only 80% was sold. That means that 20% remains with the Chinese, Meijing Group. Additionally, everyone recognizes that Meijing put a lot of cash into Mooney - some estimating more than $150 million, perhaps closer to $200 million for development, improvements, etc. Most likely much of that money was made available to (transferred to) Mooney via loans from Meijing and not by "equity" infusions. That "debt" could still be on the books - and could be a huge "senior IOU" to Meijing with seniority over equity. The "devil is in the details" which have never been explained....for some reason. Mooney Reveals New Ownership - FLYING Magazine Present Position (themooneyflyer.com) Pilots, aircraft owners buy Mooney International - AOPA MOONEY CHANGES OWNERSHIP – SA Flyer

Don Maxwell has them in stock.

In 2019 @Skaugi posted that he purchased a 1979 M20K 231 with Merlyn Wastegate and Intercooler …

Actually I disagree. They didn't use enough. The receptacle should be filled. If you try to "not use too much" you may create a void along the circumference of the gauge or a weak spot that creates a void over time. You run the risk that water will find a way over time into the open area behind the gauge. The first time you experience freezing temperatures on the ground or at high altitudes the water will freeze, expand and loosen/pop the disc gauge out. It does not matter if RTV (silicone) is in contact with the back of the disc gauge. It works magnetically. I recently replaced a gauge because the A&P shop damaged the face. The gauge was originally installed by Lone Star Aero (San Antonio) in 2001. Lone Star was a long time Mooney specialist shop. The void was completely filled with RTV (silicone). I did the same when installing (after cleaning out all the old RTV (silicone)). Remember that RTV (silicone) needs to be exposed to humid air for a certain amount of time before the cross-linking can occur. So don't just squeeze the RTV (silicone) in and press it together - it may not set up for a long, long time. (it's like putting the cap on an open tube - the tube may stay soft for a long time). Follow the manufacturer instructions - usually you press together and pull apart exposing to air for about 5 minutes. Then press together the final time. It depends upon the product, humidity and temperature.

Was the June 2015 W&B also done by reweighing with cells or was it done by recomputing additions and removals?

The engine and prop combination used in the Rocket 305 (TSIO-520-N/NB & McCauley) are exactly the same as those used in the Cessna 340 & 414. RAM specializes in engines for Cessna twins so it is not surprising that they had one on the shelf that @Rocket 305 could use without delay.

Exactly right. You are right that the current factory senders hit their upper "Full" limit before you completely fill the Monroy auxiliary tanks. The Monroy tanks sit outboard on the dihedral wing and are slightly above the main tank. The Monroy auxiliary tank is connected to the Main tank with a single flow line with 6D fittings and a single vent line. I think that 6D line is about 3/8 inch ID. It flows between Main and Monroy Auxillary tanks by gravity. The point is that it flows slowly. If you fill only the Main tanks to the lip with 75.6 gallons (and none in the Monroys), the fuel does not rush into the Monroy tank. Your panel gauges will say "Full" at the moment after you fill the Mains. But if you wait 15 minutes or more the levels even out. The Main tank level drops and the Monroy will now have fuel in it rising by gravity to the same vertical level as the Main. Your panel gauges will then say about 3/4 or something like that (maybe 55-60 gallons). If you fill the Main to the lip and then the Monroy to the lip you will have your full 105 gallons. When you are flying and get down to about 1/2 tank as shown on your panel, then your panel fuel gauge will read accurately. The Monroys will have drained out completely into the Main. Only the Mains will have fuel and the factory sender will read correctly. So in the "current world", your current gauges read accurately between 1/2 and Zero. Your bottom half of your tank in each wign is 19 gallons. But the top half of your tank in each wing is 33 gallons. Your Monroy Supplement should have a conversion for you to stick measure the Monroy so you can determine how much is in each Monroy (while sitting level on the ground) whch you can add to what your panel is saying (reading only the Main). It is not perfect but you can rely upon your panle gauges when it matters - when fuel reads below 1/2 tank. As explained above it is not linear. This is similar with the Monroys in a J. There is a copy of the J Supplement.

In defense of the OP, he did state it, but just not where we expected. It was at the end of the last sentence in his original post. "( this is a 1984 MK20 231 - no low)" - and not in his profile. I was also originally confused. I drifted into this thread midstream and didn't read his post carefully. I was looking for it in his profile - but it was not there.

Me too. I use it all the time - works great for over 24 years without overhaul.