DXB

I got a T-hangar for my newly acquired '68C- $400. It was the only one available at this "modest" price at my nearest field. No concrete slab- the floor is uneven asphalt- great fun with the tow bar. In a heavy rain, 70% of it is covered with 1-2 inches water, which then turns into a skating rink with a temp drop. Oh, and did I mention there's no ventilation? Condensation settles on the wings and freezes. When summer arrives, with no fans to equalize the humidity, this will amount to parking my plane in a wet sauna after it rains. It might actually be better off outside! I would certainly trade my current situation for a less expensive open hangar. BTW, anyone know of a better available hangar near Philly?

Great topic that I need to learn better. I'm currently trying to update the equipment list for my recently acquired '68C- an eye opening experience. Many changes since it left the factory never made it to the w&b records. Then it was reweighed in '97, which actually shaved off 3 lb. But since '97, what's made it onto the official w&b seems equally incomplete (ignores added electric trim, new prop, a new physical panel, some of the avionics changes, all new interior, new paint). The official record now has only 888lb useful load. I'm hoping to get the panel completely updated soon, which will shave some weight. Would it make sense to reweigh at that point? Seems anything calculated is going to be way off, and given the history, and I'd like to know a semi-accurate weight/c.g. before I start carrying more than just my 140 lb transition instructor.

AmigOne, I bought this knob and want to do the same replacement on my '68C. May be dumb question, but bny advice on how to get the old one off? It's on awful tight, and I'm not sure how to get leverage on it without damaging anything else.

Great knowledge on here, thanks for help all around. Spoke again with my original MSC mechanic in GA (Joe Cole- good guy BTW in case anyone was thinking of using his shop). Joe said he would be surprised if a rigging/preload issue came up so soon after he worked on it. He suspected something having shifted or fallen down against the bar to impair the last bit of forward motion, as some folks suggest above. If so, it may be an easy fix from the shop on my field- it' a bit of a pain that I can't fly it myself to someone with more expertise currently. If rigging is an issue, Joe offered to talk to the guys and walk them through any related work by phone. This still makes me a tad nervous, and maybe I'll have to see about arranging a ferry flight at that point. More to come...

I'm doing transition training in my new to me '68 C and have a gear issue. A reputable MSC mechanic in GA who is also an experienced pilot and CFI did the pre-buy on it. He subsequently did work on the gear that included replacing all biscuits, which were '68 original, as well as changing a corroded nose gear spindle and bearings. Afterwards he operated the gear on jacks and also flew it himself - apparently the gear worked fine. I've flown it twice now while getting instruction from a senior Mooney instructor and former C model owner. I have no issue pulling the gear up- surprisingly easy. But I try to put the gear down at 100-120mph and have a miserable time. Most of the movement toward the locking block is easy and smooth, but securing it is a nightmare. This requires hard forward pressure with both hands for the last few millimeters to allow the sleeve to slide up and engage the pin. I spoke to the MSC mechanic and read up on technique again to make sure I'm doing things right, then went back and tried again. Still no luck. It feels as if something is preventing the last few millimeters of forward travel. I do notice that when locked up the bar contacts the plastic center console containing the flap and trim position indicators. But the console doesn't seem loose or incorrectly positioned so I'm not sure this is the problem. I spoke to the mechanics on my field who seemed to have little experience with the Johnson bar system and couldn't get it into look for at least a week anyway. I'm wondering if there's any guidance I can give them, or if i should just get it ferried to the nearest MSC in Robbinsville. Or lastly, is the problem just my own inexperience? This is what I thought after my initial flight, but now I'm doubtful.

Congrats! I actually also bought a '68C very recently as a first plane after shopping for an Archer for a while. I'm doing the transition training now with a Mooney Safety Foundation instructor and finding his M20C experience invaluable in getting to know this plane's quirks. Immensely enjoyable experience. Best of luck!

I wasn't quite sure how to undertake adding a gallon at a time without my own outside tanks to drain into or self serve fuel on my field to fill. So I tried out these measurements on a wood paint stick for my M20C with bladders, not knowing how different the tank/wing configuration is in the C vs the F. I checked the level on the stick before seeing how much it took to top off a couple of times (once adding 13/16 gallons per tank and another time adding 6/10). I positioned the stick in the notch at the back of the hole for consistency. The numbers here seem very close, so I added a few intermediate values on the stick using the curve fitting suggested above. As long as I stay conservative with my estimates, I think this will be ok until I can get JPI fuel flow installed.

This might be a dumb noob question, but I have a '68 C with 54 gallon bladders. Since the wing is the same, I'm wondering if these measurements would work as rough values for my tanks, underestimating slightly as an extra safety buffer given the slightly larger capacity. Or does the configuration of the bladders change the levels significantly? I also haven't been able to figure out what the bladders do for usable fuel quantity yet- not that the original 1968 POH even bothers to address usable fuel.

Sorry - did not mean the crank case itself- superficial rust was seen on a couple of exposed areas on connecting rods. When the issue came up, I discussed with a couple of other mechanics besides the pre-buy A&P, and no one seemed to think it merited a tear down. The engine was underused for the first few years after the last overhaul and then was flown a lot more, so the corrosion has likely been there a while. It's getting an oil change this week after breaking in the reconditioned cylinder, which will make metal so no point in worrying right now. I'll subsequently watch the oil analysis, screen, and filter for a few 12 hr interval oil changes to make sure things are acting stable.

I found out about corrosion in the crankcase of this 600 SMOH engine only after buying the plane. I did know from the pre-buy that one cylinder had an exhaust leak from a bad valve guide- the other 3 were good on borescope, and no metal was in the filter or screen. To recondition and re-install that 1 cylinder cost me $1200 total. Unfortunately pulling it off did reveal a few spots of corrosion in the crankcase and a single small pit on one cam lobe. But otherwise the lobes and lifters themselves were all in good shape- no spalling whatsoever. Wish I had known before buying, but a tear-down seemed premature? Doubt it will make TBO, but it didn't sound unsafe to fly. Per the MSC mechanic, the lifespan is unpredictable, but it should give plenty of warning with metal in the filter when the time comes.

I'm enthusiastically reading Mike Busch's new book on this old concept, and it would be hard to argue with the basic idea that infant mortality contributes to risk of engine failure. Still the graphs in the article, which tally numbers of failures in each category, bother me as misleading without denominator data. There is currently no way to compare the risk of past TBO engine failure risk with new engine failure risk accurately. Mike Busch states as much himself in the comments. What everyone needs is a clear system to determine when risk for an old engine without serious issues has equalled new engine risk on a per hour basis. It would not be hard to collect this data over a decade or so if a couple of data points were entered in a central database at annual for every engine in operation.

Yes if you could send me contact info that would be terrific! I see John Pallante on the Mooney Safety Foundation website, but I haven't found contact info, and I've gotten no response via my inquiry through the safety foundation site.

Thanks so much for the tips. I wondered hard if I should buy an M20C with its merits and scores of devotees on this board, or an Archer as my first plane (it's much closer to the Warrior that I trained it). The standard advice I got in the training community was the latter. Then I had a friend who trained in a 172 like you, made the switch to an M20C over 10 hrs, and has never looked back. I went with my friends advice- hardly a rational decision, simply picked the answer I wanted to hear. Interestingly he said many of the same things as you regarding the transition. I'll have to get to know the leaning issues you discuss, as I'm less familiar. The Pipers float a good bit more with excess speed than the 172s, so I feel decent at preventing this. It sounds like the Mooney is harder to slow down and also less forgiving if you drop it on early than the Warrior- I've certainly done plenty of such crappy things to my school's poor Warrior in my training without serious consequence.

I've wondered the exact same thing - could transition in an Arrow first but instead am going strait to the M20C...efficient or foolish?

Can anyone recommend a good instructor in South Jersey/Southeastern PA (ideally near KPNE) for complex training with simultaneous transition training into an M20C? I just purchased the plane and would like to start in December after my check ride. The training would be for a low time private pilot with experience only in Piper Warriors. Much appreciated!

I incorporated a lot of input from folks here to come up with a schematic and plan for the panel upgrade, so it's only fair that i share it (attached). Also attached is a friend's panel in a '66C that I used as a model for mine. Now if I can just find a way to get this done within budget...

Sure I'd love to see your '68 C. Let me know next time you're planning on being at KPNE and will have time. I'll definitely make an effort to stop by!

Thanks for the great input from everyone- I've been talking to Penn (Agape) Avionics and will now contact Red Eagle as well. Unfortunately Penn isn't selling Garmin stuff until their Garmin dealer status is reinstated, with no time estimate for this. They are instead offering me a deal on the larger screen King KSN770 nav/com/MFD along with their KT74 transponder and KMA 30 audio panel, instead of the GTN 650 and other Garmin stuff for comparable price. The increased size and functionality of the KSN770 are appealing, but I'm pretty hesitant given that this is such a new product in a market that Garmin dominates. Any thoughts on this hardware? If it fails in the market, I worry support and value may be issues. Some other issues that came up were: 1. Need for a GDL-88 in addition to the GTX330ES- As a Foreflight user, I'm wondering if it's a good alternative to just get a Stratus 2 for ADS-b in and display traffic on a yoke mount IPad? Given the small screen of the GTN650, using the Stratus 2/Ipad primarily for weather and traffic as well as AHRS backup for the steam gauges might be a more efficient (and economical) approach? 2. Including GPSS install with the STEC-30 - I'm wondering if this will be overkill for a low time private pilot right now, and I could add it later if I finish an instrument rating and find myself doing more complex flying. Or is there real value in installing it right now for an extra 2K? 3. Aspen EFD 1000 Pro- I'm also thinking about adding later on if I get deep into instrument flying rather than now. This would also eliminate need for GPSS as a separate install. Or is there a strong practical case for getting one now? Too little experience, too many decisions...

My first post. I feel privileged as a newbie to join this great community after just buying my first plane, a 1968 M20C (N2971L). The plane got a prebuy inspection at Cole Aviation in Dalton, GA and will come home to Philadelphia (KPNE) after getting some work finished there. The air frame, interior, and paint are in terrific shape, and the 600hr engine seems ok for now. But the panel certainly could be better (pics attached). I'm just finishing my private now (checkride shortly), and this is the plane that I want to do my instrument training in and hopefully be able to keep for many years. I'm looking into a major panel upgrade, and I think my budget and panel space will tolerate the following: Garmin GTN 650, STEC-30 autopilot, JPI 900 engine monitor, Garmin GTX330 w/ES transponder, Garmin GMA 340 audio panel. I also want clean up the haphazard mess of breaker and switch labeling that's there now, maybe add Nulite, and other cosmetic improvements. Can the experienced folks on here give me some guidance on picking a shop and getting the job done? My local options seem to be: 1. Penn Avionics in Brandywine (KOQN)- my closest shop, but just changed owners and reportedly is quite disorganized right now. I contacted them, and they stated that they have temporarily lost their Garmin dealer status and wanted to sell me Bendix avionics instead. 2. Airmods in Robbinsville (N87)- They seem to have a very strong reputation overall as a Mooney Service Center, but I'm not sure how much avionics work they do. They seem interested in the job but they are not an avionics dealer. Can someone school me on how this would work for a certified install? 3. Lancaster Avionics and Henry Weber Aircraft (KLNS)- I have not spoken to them yet, but I think that the panel, engine monitor, and avionics work could be split between the two shops. Does anyone have experience with them? I saw mentioned elsewhere on here that they are reputable but their prices run on the high side. Are there any details that folks feel I should ask about when setting up the job? And anything else that I should get done to the panel specifically? Much obliged!!!