gsxrpilot

That's a great video @Ned Gravel. I particularly like the animated graphics showing the track inbound and then again the back and forth views between Lead and #3 for the Element Landing. Well done. And I don't see anything at all to critique on that Element landing. A very nicely executed example of a proper Element landing. And as briefed, stay in the air until past the Purple dot. Perfect.

+1 for the spreadsheet. That’s how I bought both of my Mooney’s.

That looks awesome! I hope to get a look at it up close someday.

There are a couple of C's in the sub $30K range, listed on Barnstormers. They're both here in Colorado so I might be able to go by and take a look at them If they were in good running condition, even without autopilots, GPS, etc. they might turn out to be good airplanes for that price. There are quite a number of C's listed in the high $40's to $50's range. I would not recommend spending that kind of money on a C without an autopilot or GPS. Let me know if you'd like me to take a look at them.

Runway was only 100 ft wide so we used a 5 sec interval take off. As @kpaul said, the NA plane in the lead and the turbo matches it.

A couple of us went up for some formation practice this morning. It was 68° here in Colorado under a high overcast. Butter smooth air made for a fun practice session. If anyone would like to experience this type of flying, there is often a right seat open. We'd also like to add a third and forth to the formation. So reach out if interested. Getting ready to launch.

If the Mooney dip is done correctly, the gear will almost stow itself.

We went to Makinac Island last summer. You are correct that it's CRAZY expensive. Our solution was to fly into Saint Ignace, MI. The FBO tossed us the keys to the crew car and told us to keep it for the three days we were there. We got an Airbnb in Saint Ignace and stayed there. But in the morning, we got up and flew the Mooney over to Makinac Island, spent the day and flew back. The Airbnb was $60 a night, the car was free, as was the overnight parking for the Mooney. It's about a 5 min flight from Saint Ignace to Makinac. The ramp was full so we parked in the freshly mowed grass. There was another 252 on the ramp as well, but with curled tips on it's prop, it wasn't going anywhere.

It helps to have a friendly shop. I put mine on the scales a few times. It wasn't until we started getting numbers we wanted, that I said to go ahead and print a new W&B. As you said, a good cleaning, vacuum under the seats, empty all the usual stuff from the hat rack, wash the dirt off, and empty the tanks. It all adds up.

Very true, but the "facts" I was objecting to are about Caravan operations. Even having a FAST or FFI card wouldn't give one knowledge about specific Caravan operations. And just to be sure, even a FAST or FFI carded formation pilot would still have to attend a Caravan clinic and qualify for the Caravan within the same calendar year just like every other member. It is also true that their experience and expertise would be recognized and very much appreciated and they would likely be asked to assist with new pilots flying formation for the first time.

Hey, I'm based at BJC with my Mooney. I'd be happy to fly with you or take you up for a spin in my Mooney. I'm not a CFI, but have 1000 Mooney hours over the last four years or so. About half that time was in a short body with the Johnson bar gear. Send me a PM with your contact info and we'll get together. I'll probably be out flying on Friday and possibly again on Sunday.

I think SWTA is interested in selling their STC's.

Aspen does have refurbished units to sell... occasionally. It's worth checking. I recently bought a refurbished Aspen MFD from Aspen for $4995.

No one is criticizing anyone for not flying with the Caravan or attending a Caravan clinic. But those of us who do and who have are critical of anyone giving out "facts" as if they know... which you obviously don't.

I've flown by this one close enough to get a good look at it. I was in my M20C so it was above me.

I really do appreciate the dialogue here. And I don't mean to sound or be condescending. It's been a long week and I should probably log off and try again after a weekend. I value your friendship and that of @Yetti as well. And if I've offended either of you, I apologize. And I hope @Yetti does take advantage of the opportunity to learn to fly formation. There might well be a better place to learn formation than with the Caravan, but if you ever did attend one of our clinics, for example the two that are held each year in San Marcos, TX, you'd find that all the Safety Pilots and those leading out are all Carded Formation Pilots holding credentials from either FAST or FFI, and/or are US Air Force or Navy formation flying instructors. If you don't think we're professional, serious, and dedicated to excellence in this endeavor, so be it. I can't change your mind. But it's obvious that those who participate see it differently. So one last time. We will not discuss the details of this incident here on MooneySpace period.

I'll have to disagree. This isn't a Mooney thing. It just so happens that two Mooneys were involved, but that is frankly just a coincidence. I fly a Mooney in formation, but that's because its, unfortunately, the only airplane I own. But I fly with all types. I've flown formation with Cirrus, Bonanzas, Cherokees, Comanches, countless RV's, Yak's, CJ's, and others I didn't even know what they were. We have almost every year had at least one non-Mooney flying in the Caravan arrival too Oshkosh. This is a formation flying issue. And to understand it you have to come fly formation or at least sit through the ground school. You can also go to the Caravan website and download the training manual. It's a pretty thick document and much more than I can explain here. And thus the obvious division in sentiment between formation pilots and non-formation pilots on this thread.

The thing I've noticed from the 130+ posts on this thread is that all the concern, and calls for changes in training, procedures, etc. are coming from pilots who do not fly formation, or did not fly with the Caravan, or have not attended Caravan Clinics. And also those who probably never will fly formation or attend Caravan training. Those of us that have, are not concerned. Many members of the Caravan formed up on their own and flew formation all the way across the country, home after Oshkosh. If you're not a formation pilot or member of the Caravan, you have nothing to fear, and wouldn't understand the explanation anyway. Or as I said before, come participate in a Caravan Clinic and learn why those of us who have are not concerned. This is all very much like the non-flying public who just don't understand why anyone would fly a small airplane. And no matter how safe we say it is, there is always another crash and the answer is, "well obviously not." I appreciate the honesty of @ilovecornfields just saying, I'm not participating in that activity. That's fine. Although if we ever met up at the airport I'd do my best to convince him to hop in the right seat and see what it's all about I might not be successful. And that's ok. We're not taking this lightly. But I'm 1000 times more likely to be killed by my Mooney with an engine out this weekend, than the chance this will ever happen again while flying formation with the Caravan.

No, I'm saying the number 62 had nothing to do with this.

Correct, the first misconception here is that 60 planes were flying in close quarters (corners?) The entire Caravan this year was 62 airplanes. But the Caravan is divided into individual Elements of either two or three airplanes. Elements are separated by at least half a mile. So in this case, the planes that swapped paint were in an Element of two airplanes. There was obviously an issue, but it wasn't because of 60 or 62 airplanes. It was only between two airplanes flying in formation.

For Tejas and Aerosmith, those days are long gone.

I always say my one rule is never pay retail. But that applies to parts, gadgets, avionics, etc. I'm always looking for a discount, something second hand, or just a good deal. Consequently my Mooney carries various bits and pieces from @Alan Fox and @Avionics Source, ebay, Barnstormers, etc. But when it comes to service, I can't think of anything more short sighted than counting dollars. Whether it's a steady hand on a paint gun, or a torque wrench, or a sharp pair of eyes that know where to look and then check twice to make sure its done right. When in comes to the human factor, I look for the right person, shop, craftsman, and never ask the price.

One

The rear seat in an E is far from unusable. @Bob_Belville has possibly the nicest E in the country and has pictures of four adults in his. I'm not a small guy and I've sat in the back of a C a few times. The leg room in the back seat of an E is largely dependent on the height of the person in the front seat. So as long as you're not regularly putting large children or adults in your back seats, an E is a fine choice. And on those occasions when you want to take another couple along and fly to lunch, it will work just fine. And I figure they won't be complaining as they're riding for free.

The best part about the E is that it's got the same engine as the F's and J's. But it's hauling around 10" less fuselage with it. E's are quick off the runway, and with a few speed mods are easily faster than an F.