kevinw

You, like every pilot, want to fly the fastest, newest, most complex airplane possible. I get that. If money wasn't an issue and I could afford a TBM 850 it would take a lot of will power not to buy one. But for a 500 hour pilot with an instrument rating it would be both foolish and dangerous. Money is no substitute for experience. I learned in a Piper Warrior and then rented an Archer for about 3 years. When deciding to buy my first airplane I chose a J. I could've afforded more airplane but I thought the J was the perfect step-up with my level of experience and flight time and to this day I have no regrets. Perhaps later I will step up to an Ovation and if so 300 hours in my J will make that transition much easier and more importantly, safer. Aviation is unforgiving so take the advice everyone is trying to give you and learn to be a better and safer pilot by slowing down and building hours in a less complex airplane; you'll thank us later. One last thing, someone on MS once said insurance is about risk. If you get an insurance quote on Rocket or Bravo that blows your socks off, this is cause for concern and alarm bells should be sounding. It's high for a reason and you're likely making a dangerous decision. Good luck and safe flying in whatever decision you make. Kevin

The ammeter needle in my J has always danced around. I never thought much of it but I think I'll have my A&P try cleaning the switch connections next month when it's in for annual.

I'd have that picture framed and hanging in my office if that was 1151V. It's every pilots dream to land there!

I've come close to doing this myself. I closed the baggage door without closing the latch to keep the heat in. Almost walked past it. Now my rule is it's either all the way open or completely closed and latched. On another note, I wonder if this will happen more often in the future in the new two door Ultra models. With one door on the right side you at least have to walk past the baggage door to enter the airplane. When entering on the left I think the baggage door is more likely to be overlooked. Time will tell.

Great looking O. Love the color. If I were in the market you and I would be talking!

1. Yes, I believe this comes from the GPS 2. I used rwy 31. Winds were about 270-280 at 12-14 knots. What's interesting is I took off an hour earlier from rwy 21 and winds were 240 at 14. Over the course of an hour they moved to 280. 3. runway is relatively flat 4. Perhaps a little more. It almost felt like I took off with no flaps but they were in takeoff position. 5. Yes 6. Yes, the runway is at 1202' MSL. One other thing, The EDM830 is new and I'm not exactly sure how it calculates %HP or how accurate this is. I suppose from RPM and MP. The throttle was 100% fully in. I looked at data from previous flights and it is consistent. The sky was clear so there was no vertical developing clouds. It was windy and as I mentioned in #2 the direction was changing fairly quickly. ...and Anthony I don't take your writing harsh at all. I appreciate all the comments and input. I'm learning a lot from this post.

No I didn't. I figured the oil was hot, it had already been done when I first took off. Because the stop was very brief I just taxied back out and did the normal pre-takeoff check without cycling the prop. I will watch the oil pressure next time. I've never been taught to do that but it makes perfect sense.

Couldn't agree more. I was always taught to really look the airplane over and do a slow, thorough, pre-flight after it's been in the shop, both mechanical and for avionics issues. Probably not a bad idea to make a couple loops in the airport area just to be sure everything is working properly.

That looks 100% better. My J had an engine hung in early 2013 and it's now sagging; looks about like your "before" pic. I wonder of the new rubber in the lower mounts just settle a bit. In any case, it goes into the shop for it's annual next month and I plan to have it shimmed. Hopefully mine looks as good as yours when it's done.

I remember vividly the first time I took off to the south from FCM. It was about 10 years ago in a Warrior as well. Everything went normal but I didn't know about, or expect to see was the drop off you're referring to. I remember thinking as I passed over it....wow, a pilot would be in BIG trouble if he lost an engine on takeoff. Back to the data, I did compare it to previous takeoffs and it HP was down 2% and FF only .2 GPH, so essentially the same. I've been flying for about 15 years but only have 500 hours so I am far from an "experienced" pilot in my opinion. I've hit downdrafts in summer but at a safe cruising altitude. I've never experienced anything like this before in any aircraft. I'm 200' AGL and can't climb with full power. I'll chalk it up as a good learning experience.

Thanks for posting all this info; it's very beneficial. Most of this I do but I have to admit some I don't. For example I watch the RPMs in the prop check but not the oil pressure. I also need to do a better job of really watching the gauges on takeoff roll as you describe, and I will from now on. I've relied perhaps too much on what the engine "sounds" like versus diligently scanning the gauges other than a quick glance at fuel pressure and temps. I'm actually glad my annual is due next month so I can have the power outputs checked.

Good to know. I keep it on a battery minder so it is always fully charged. Thanks.

This is very possible. If the fuel was contaminated there would be several other airplanes with similar issues. Like I mentioned earlier, it was a windy day and the CFI thought it was possible that getting caught in a downdraft with full fuel, gear down and flaps at takeoff position could have led to what happened. It's not easy to push the nose forward when you see houses 200' below you (they are at a slightly higher elevation than the airport) but I did it, then cleaned it up and was eventually able to make a shallow climb out. I wonder if I would've retracted gear and flaps sooner that would've helped. The reason I didn't is the problem began almost immediately after liftoff. Thanks for your input, I hope that is the case.

Once again thanks for all the input. While I may never know for sure what exactly happened I'm getting a lot of good info on the MP, voltage and RPM readings. Sounds like the voltage regulator should be adjusted, the propeller turned up a little and the MP is suspect. As far as MP goes, I read that the gauge should be checked by setting the altimeter to the field elevation, note the setting in the Kollsman window, subtract 1" from this number for every 1000' above sea level and the MP gauge reading should be "close". Anything different is an error in the instrument. Then take this static MP reading, subtract 1" and this is the MP reading you should get on takeoff roll. I've done this in the past and it checks. So if this information is correct, the MP we should be getting is really based on the atmospheric conditions in our respective areas, right? Once again, the procedure above is just something i read online so it could be wrong. And by the way, N601RX asked if the MP was calibrated in the EDM830 and yes it was. It is exactly in check with the steam gauge.

We discussed this at the airport yesterday as a possible but seems odd. Don't know the winds aloft but it was a reasonably windy day. I'm by no means an expert but in my 15 years of flying I've never experienced this before but then again in aviation we're always learning something new. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever know exactly what happened. One thing is for sure, I had everything firewalled 300 ft AGL and could not climb.

I've thought a lot about this and I believe it is fuel related. This in combination with flaps and gear down and also increased weight led to the poor performance. I drained a good amount of fuel from the sumps this morning and dumped it. Whatever the problem was came out of it. While my airport is outside of town and in the event of an engine out there are safe areas to land it probably wasn't a good idea to take off again without a mechanic checking it over. I did it though because the issue was gone and I felt comfortable enough to test fly it within close proximity to the airport. This was very strange and I will be very careful over the next several hours I put on the engine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for all the advice. I just returned from flying it again and everything is running normally. I spoke with the airport mgr who is also the CFII and the guy who fueled it. He's a bit puzzled as well. We talked about a partially plugged pitot tube, flaps at takeoff position and gear down then hitting a downdraft or perhaps the engine ingested a contaminant. I compared the data from previous flights and they are very similar. I will double check all the suggestions and when it goes in for annual next month talk to him about the low MP on takeoff. It's going up to Jedd-Aire in Benson MN. Jason is a Mooney expert so I'll pass all this info along to him. In the meantime I'll sump every time I fill, do careful runups and watch the engine gauges closely. You know....all the things we're supposed to do. If it happens again I'll let you guys know. Thanks again for all the input. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I watched him put 100LL in so that's out. As far as the prop goes, I cycle the prop as you describe, very slowly until the RPMs drop and then quickly back in. I think I'll run out to the airport after work today and do another run up and prop cycle. The strange thing is I did two TOLs after the problem occurred and they were normal. I'm now wondering if something in the tank, like a piece of sealant, broke away and caused this. Just a guess...

Due to weather the last time I flew it was about 10-12 days prior. I did fly it for about 45 minutes just before. I rolled in, topped off the tanks but didn't sump. I just started it back up and taxied out. In a nutshell, it was like the engine was running normally but not producing full thrust. Just enough to keep it in flight and not much more. I would've been terrified if this happened in a major metro area. Luckily for me we have corn and bean fields everywhere.

I'm not sure what that means but it felt like the the prop was pulled back; kind of like taking off in a car in 3rd gear. But if that were the case wouldn't the RPMs indicate that with a lower reading? I was so low to the ground I was afraid to touch much. I buzzed some houses and wouldn't be surprised if someone called the airport to report me.

I have the electroair system and it's worked flawlessly. I checked it before and after the flight but I won't lie, I wondered if it stopped for some reason. Airspeed was in the 70s as you can see in the pic under SPD. Little or no VSI.

I had an interesting / scary flight yesterday and I'm trying to make sense of it. I was out "blowing the cobs" out in my '82 J which I typically do if I don't have anywhere to fly to. I like to fly my plane once a week. I took off and uneventfully climbed to 6500 and basically did some sightseeing south and west of where I'm based out of. After about 45 minutes I descended down to pattern altitude and made my landing. I taxi in and the airport manager tops off my tanks with about 35 total gallons of fuel. I decided to go back out and do some practice TOLs so I started the plane up and taxied to rwy 31. I did a mag and ignition check (I have an electronic ignition), set flaps, boost pumps on and lined up on the centerline for takeoff. I gave full throttle like always and lifted off at about 65 knots or so. Here's where it gets weird; I feel on liftoff things don't seem right. I'm not climbing like I normally do. It almost felt like a takeoff with no flaps. I get about 2-300' off the ground and I'm having trouble climbing. The first thing that comes to mind is "what did I forget!" Gear and takeoff flaps are still down because I'm sensing trouble. I immediately check that mixture and prop are fully in and the boost pump is on. They are. All gauges look normal; MP and RPM are good and the engine "sounds" like it operating normally. Airspeed is low and now I feel like the day has finally come where I may be making a forced landing. I try as best as I can to level the plane and try to pick up airspeed by keeping everything firewalled. At this point I feel like I'm not losing altitude but not gaining any either. So I now gear up and then flaps up. My heart is racing so I take a deep breath and tell myself to fly the airplane. I make a shallow, coordinated, somewhat nose down left turn back to the airport and by the time I'm parallel with the runway I'm at pattern altitude and it seems to be performing better; I know I can make the landing. I land the plane and pull off the runway. I check all the gauges on the EDM830 as well as the steam gauges, all normal. I do another run-up and check the mag, EI and prop. All normal. I decided to go back and give it takeoff power with the engine monitor set to fuel flow thinking the only possible cause is fuel starvation. If anything goes wrong I'll abort the takeoff and with a 5000' runway I have that option. Engine power and thrust seems normal this time so I continued the takeoff and I easily climbed to our pattern altitude of 2000'. I made the landing and repeated it again. Once again, normal. I downloaded the JPI data to see if it would give me any indication of what went wrong. I'm new to the EZ trends but I don't see anything. The engine monitor is new so the fuel flow is not accurate yet; I should be getting 18gph on takeoff. I compared the data to previous, normal flights and the fuel flow and HP are slightly lower but not much. 0.1-0.2 on FF and 2%HP. The highlighted line is about where the trouble began. So my question is this: Is it possible that the engine can be running at almost 2700 RPM with MP at 27 but not produce thrust? The only thing I did between everything normal and this was add fuel. I sampled all three sumps suspecting a fuel problem but it looked blue/normal and no water appeared. I have to tell you guys, this scared the hell out of me. In case anyone is thinking power on stall there's no way. The climb was shallow and the AOA was within normal range. The additional fuel added 210lbs but I was well below gross weight. The engine is a IO360 A3B6 with 140 hours SFRM. It was a clear day, about 60 degrees out with winds 290 at 12. I'm a 500 hour pilot with an IR and about 130 in this plane. I've never experienced anything like this before, in any aircraft. Any help is certainly appreciated. -Kevin

Thanks for the info. So it sounds like a logbook entry, very little labor and a 6 lb gain in UL. Lance Casper posted he has an account with Aircraft Spruce and will pass along his discount; I'll definitely take him up on that. I think I'm going to pull the trigger once my mechanic agrees to do it.

The airplane in the video I attached is a 1981 J. In any case I'll check with my A&P and report back.

About a year ago I had a strobe light go out on one of my wings. My mechanic replaced it but now I have one wing that blinks twice and the other blinks three times. It works, it's legal, but it just looks goofy and I don't like it. My plane goes in for annual next month and I'm thinking of replacing both of them with LEDs and possibly the tail as well. Looking at Whelen Orion series. I've read they are much brighter, less likely to burn out, less power draw and lighter due to no flash box. Has anyone converted lately and know what lights would be needed for an '82 J? I found this YouTube video this morning. What a difference!