Hondo

Don't know that I can add much to what Shadrach and others have said, but here are my reasons for LOP operation, primarily for cruise. The motivation was an article in AOPA magazine titled"So wrong for so long" which praised the merits of LOP operation. Monty Barrett ihas an engine shop called Barrett Performance Aircraft. He said engines run LOP were very clean with no carbon buildup. Since he does the engines for the US Aerobatic Team and overhauled my engine, I decided to check it out. Mike Busch also got my attention. For your questions, at an aircraft weight of 2500 lbs , these are my observations at 8000 with OAT 57F. Altimeter was 30.38, Highs have sinking air which can slow you a little. 1. For WOT at 8000 running 25 ROP, 8.6 GPH, book is ~154, I got 152. At 30 LOP, 8.0 GPH airspeed dropped to 147. 2. I think so. I no longer see carbon pieces in my oil filter. My compressions have improved to 77-78 since switching to LOP. Time will tell. 3. CHT is usually about 15-25 degrees cooler than best power CHT and EGTs are not a problem. 4. The speed penalty here is 5 knots, but with less fuel and a cleaner and cooler running engine. This data shows the effect of varying RPM. Alt 8000, OAT 57F, 13.9C Engine RPM 2400, MP 21.8 MP adjustment for nonstandard temperature = -(OAT - STD DAY)*.04 = -(13.9 + 1)*.04 ~ -.60, Adjusted MP = 21.2 ~ 60% power Aircraft 2500 pounds, Cowl flaps closed, JPI EDM 700 with OAT and JPI FS 450 fuel flow For N W S E run at 30 LOP average GPS GS using Garmin 496 was 147. RPM MP FF GS EGT1 CHT1 EGT2 CHT2 EGT3 CHT3 EGT$ CHT4 2500 21.8 8.2 148 1410 354 1380 328 1390 306 1410 348 2400 21.8 8.0 147 1430 357 1390 337 1400 314 1420 350 2300 21.8 7.8 146 1420 352 1400 334 1410 311 1420 347 2200 22.0 7.6 143 1400 356 1400 337 1420 312 1430 347 To lean in climb, I use step to select my hottest cylinder, #1, and adjust the mixture to maintain takeoff EGT. At 1000 AGL, reduce RPM to 2600 and transition to cruise climb. When MP drops to 26, lean till smooth. Do what is required to keep CHT below 380. Go to 30 LOP for cruise at 6000 to 12000..

Anyone tried the COMM1 Radio Simulators? http://www.comm1.com/explore/sysreq.html#ifr Opinions?

Correction, that was a 2.4% upslope, not 2.4 degrees.

The December issue of the Mooney Flyer discusses a Mooney takeoff accident in which two died. http://www.themooneyflyer.com/ The Mooney POH does not include data for runway slope. Cirrus provides the following adjustments: Upslope % % increase in takeoff distance 1 22 2 44 4 88 In this accident they took off with a 2.4 degree upslope. The wind was calm and a takeoff down slope would have been no problem.

Here are 17 Rockets http://www.globalplanesearch.com/search?gpsq=mooney+Rocket The first one is a 1985, hangared with Garmin 530W and 430W and 420 SMOH. Ask the sellers and MSCs about Rocket part support. I think there are 83 Rocket parts. Insist on an inspection and ask for a test flight. The market favors buyers. There is no need to rush.

http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-The-Fighter-Pilot-Changed/dp/0316796883/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385794766&sr=8-1&keywords=Boyd+Robert+Coram

Looks like there are two issues here, fire and emergency descent. If you have an engine fire, you need to get it out quickly. Cabin vent and heat - Forward to keep smoke and heat out of the cabin. Mixture - AFT Throttle - AFT Fuel selector - OFF Ignition switch - OFF Gear - Down If you suspect an electrical fire turn off the Master switch and put gear down manually Master switch - OFF Airspeed - Increase to extinguish fire Do not attempt restart Find nearby airport or landing spot Plan descent if you need a spiral limit bank to 45 degrees and limit speed to about 140, faster if you have to but descending from the bottom of a cloud at 6000 FPM may not allow recovery (Descent is the most deadly phase of flight for Mooney pilots in normal operations - over half of all fatalities) Land into wind as slow as possible Open door prior to touchdown/impact

N201MK, thank you. My mechanic removed the panel because there was also a leak at the edge of the access panel. I guess he will clean all the panel screw holes, put new tank sealant in all the screw holes and then reinstall the panel using access panel sealant.

An Introduction to Tank Sealant http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tank_sealant.pdf Note Advanced Chemistry and Technology was acquired by MMM. With Flame master sealants, tanks are typically sealed with CS3204B-2 and topped with a protective coat, CS3600. CS3330B-2 is used with access panels, to make them easier to remove. What is the recommended procedure for fixing a leak from an access panel screw?

Do any of you find it hard to tell ATC unable? For example, it is April and you land at St Johns in NE AZ for cheap fuel. After checking the weather, you know reports and forecasts show ice on V190 into Phoenix. The V190 MEA is 10000 or more and the terrain is high and rugged. V528 to Payson and Phoenix shows no ice. You file and get V528 to Phoenix. When asked, you explain why you are on V528, but about halfway to Payson, ATC insists you go to V190. What do you do?

Byron, 500K seemed high to me too. I have followed their online blog http://www.avidynelive.com/default.asp%C2'> AviJake, an Avidyne engineer, makes an honest effort to keep people informed, but people are concerned about the delays. Agree, the Century 41 AP is fine. Just hope Matt doesn't retire anytime soon.

AI the AOPA convention in October, I asked an Avidyne rep about the DFC90. He said it would cost Avidyne about $500,000 to get an STC for the Mooney. He seemed to have doubts about that from a business point of view. Since the DFC90 lists for 9995, they would probably have to sell over a 100 units just to cover that cost. It looks like a very good AP, but how many Mooney owners would buy one?

If Mooney plans to be Mooney International, diesels are required. http://www.deltahawkengines.com/ The Lipps propellor also looks promising. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-02_elippse.asp We love the Mooney wing, but IMO if they can, they should consider at the Lam aileron. http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/experimental-aircraft-homebuilts/lam-aileron-does-it-live-hype Unfortunately, the cost of certification would probably make adopting these innovations impossible.

Earl, their last offer was for 9300. http://www.avidyne.com/landing/ifd.asp Initial offer was about 8500. After each offer expired, they made a new offer for a few hundred more.

There seems to be some doubt about how much longer Garmin will support the 430W. While not yet mentioned or certified (expected in 2014), is there any reason not to consider the Avidyne IFD440?

OR75 "To be honest,I would have expected the O&N installed price to be higher than the quote you got. (+$1500 vs reseal) Is that quote for 64 gallons ?" No. The quote for 64 gallons was 12725, 8600 for the bladders and 4125 for labor. Texas sales tax on the bladders would add about 700.

First, thanks for the feedback. I found the "Reseal or bladder" thread and realized this is an ongoing frustrating problem for many. "A properly done reseal should last about 20 years." I heard that before I resealed mine. First leak appeared about 18 months later... I replaced the Lord gear biscuits three years ago. Plane is always hangared. No carrier landings, but not all are squeakers either. Most of the MSCs I talked to don't want to do tank work. Dugosh agreed to patch it, but understandably without warranty. Talked to Paul Beck at Weep No More. He says he has done about 600 Mooneys with good results. He is booked thru March 2014, so people are evidently satisfied. His current quote is 7700 and two/three weeks. Best quote on installed O&N bladders is 9225. Some swear by them and others mention fuel leaks at the connectors and water pooling in the bottom of the bladders if they are not perfectly flat. According to All American they do not add value on resale. So, I will patch it again and consider Weep No More.

Has anyone found an effective way to seal Mooney fuel tanks? I stripped and resealed my tanks eight years ago. I've been forced to patch leaks seven times since then. It is like patching a rotten inner tube.

Mooniac58, I'm impressed with your progress and your take on the situation. Most of the avionics in my panel are 20+ years old. As the AI/HSI/autopilot age, cost, reliability and supportability are becoming an issue. Have ordered an Avidyne IFD 440, with possible addition of the Aspen and the Avidyne DFC 90 autopilot, if necessary. Since you are way out in front, I wondered if you would answer a couple of questions. What issues did you encounter and how did you solve them when going all electric? Do you know if or when Avidyne will certify the DFC 90 for the Mooney? Thanks.

The Cirrus SR20 uses the Continental IO-360-ES and the SR22 uses the Continental IO-550-N. Here is the mandatory service bulletin from Tornado Alley http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05%20fine%20wire%20spark%20plugs%20initial%20release%20sept%2023%202011.pdf Here is Champion's latest response on this issue http://www.championaerospace.com/assets/Report-to-Champion-on-Spark-Plug-Insulator-Cracking-2012-04-16-final.pdf Some interesting comments from the Platinum Aviation blog http://www.flyplatinum.com/blog/?p=768

Cirrus SB2X-74-01 concerning fine wire plugs http://servicecenters.cirrusdesign.com/techpubs/pdf/SB/SR2XBulletins/SB2X-74-01/SB2X-74-01.pdf According to Champion, their fine wire insulator cracking problem is related to LOP operation. As far as I know, the Tempest fine wire plugs do not have this problem. Have about 800 hours on my Champion fine wires with no apparent problem, but I run LOP and don't want to risk a cracked insulator and possible preignition, so I probably should replace them.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2006/April/200604_Features_Crosswind_tutorial.html A minor addition, if it is gusty and you use flaps, raising the flaps on rollout when all the wheels are on the ground, would make it safer to use the brakes if you had to.

Cruiser "I found that at 4000 feet with MAP 22.6 and RPM 2400 I was getting 171 KTAS on 15.8 gph." For standard day at 4000' when running 50 LOP at 2400 RPM and 22.5 MAP, the POH shows 65% power, FF of 12.3 GPH and 173 KTAS. At 19.9 MAP, FF drops to 10.3 for 55% and KTAS is 162. Congratulations!

"I do NOT understand why there have to be so many published settings." In 1980-81, Mooney didn't have digital engine monitoring systems or GPS. Take a look an an Ovation POH to see the difference. The Ovation POH has two pages for cruise power settings, one 50 ROP and one 50 LOP. There is even a note which says add .4" MP for each 10C above std day temperature and subtract .4" MP for each 10C below std day temperature. With some work, similar tables could be created for the J. Generally, the lowest RPM required to produce a given power is the most efficient. That 2200 RPM, 22 MP at 8000 sweet spot we both like, tops out at 55% power. At 8000, increasing RPM to 2400 extends power to 64%, 2600 to 71%, which gives higher power for climb or more speed.

It sounds like you want to fly fast efficiently. Flying 75%, 2700 RPM at 8000 yields 169 KIAS with a 10.8 GPH FF at 25 ROP. Flying 60%, 2400 RPM at 8000 yields 156 KIAS with a 8.6 GPH FF at 25 ROP. That is 13 KIAS faster, but at a cost of 2.2 GPH, or about $1.00 per knot. In hot weather running at 75% power could make if difficult to keep CHTs between 300 and 360 for cruise and prevent closing cowl flaps. Cowl flap drag reduces airspeed by about 3 KIAS for half and 7 KIAS for full open, so running at high power can be counter productive. In this situation, running LOP reduces FF, CHTs and airspeed, but most of the speed lost can often be regained by closing the cowl flaps. Running at 2700 RPM in cooler weather may make it harder to keep CHTs above 300, which is recommended to prevent lead fouling. If so, reducing RPM can raise CHT above 300. Power lost to friction has a cost of about .1 GPH per 100 RPM from 45% to 75% power. Therefore, higher RPM results in a greater percentage of power lost to friction at lower power settings, making lower RPM more advantageous at lower power settings. Also, at any given power setting, MP + RPM/100 is a constant. In other words, a reduction in RPM is offset by an increase in MP. To efficiently fly fast in a J, I fly WOT, 30 LOP at 8000 to 12000 and 2400 to 2200 RPM.