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Finished installing the GeeBee seals. First off, after reading all the previous descriptions of issues with seals I was apprehensive...but in hind sight I think this was unfounded. Cleaning off the old seals: Baggage door seal looked different than the cabin door. Baggage door was the foam core rubber seal, but the main door was dense crunchy foam seal. Baggage door came off cleanly and way too easily, but the cabin door came off in chunks. The money was to use plastic razor blade scrapers to scrape off the foam between the rivet heads and get down to adhesive. This worked surprisingly well but was a little tedious in places. Main Baggage I used cheap thin plastic drop cloths from Home Depot with some painters tape to mask things and keep any remover or parts off the paint and out of the aircraft. It was an easy step that made clean up super easy! I took off the interior panels for both the doors. I initially removed the hold open arm on the main door, but it really didn't open that much more and I think you could easily just leave it on and be fine. But it makes it a little easier. If you do take it off, be mindful of the washers and the cotter pin when removing. Hold open arm parts: Door Cotter pin AN380-2-2 (MS24665-132); Washer AN960-10; Washer AN960-10L I then used white shop terry cloths (and a brass brush as needed) with a small spray bottle filled with Adhesive remover. Given the fumes I'd recommend good ventilation and a respirator/glasses/gloves. Depending on how thick and crusty your old adhesive is, dictates how much you need to use a brass brush. Some have described using drill mounted brass brush, and I found that I could control the use of a brush easier without worrying about damage to the underlying frame by hand. Being able to spray the adhesive and keep it wet as it softened the adhesive made it MUCH easier. With softened adhesive sometimes using the corner of a terry cloth rag dipped in some adhesive remover pulled off the top layer of the glue and that coupled with a brush turned it into about an hour+ per door. 6-pack of cheap plastic drop cloths from HD Plastic Razor Blade Scraper 3M 08984 Adhesive Remover Small 2 oz spray bottle Wood handled brass brush After cleaning off the old adhesive, I used isopropyl alcohol to clean off the metal, cleaned up the drop cloths/area, and reassembled the hold open arm and reinstalled the door panels. To prepare for door seal install the next day, I remasked using painters tape along the back edges of the doors to protect the paint from glue/from clamping. I threw a clean moving blanket over the wing walk and wing around the main door to keep things off the paint and prevent paint drips on the wing. QUICK ASIDE: I debated using the 2-part silicone cement that GeeBee includes based on comments here on MooneySpace about something like 3M 08001 yellow "gorilla snot" that has "more working time"...THIS WAS COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED. First off, you can't use rubber cement on a silicone seal...so don't even try to use 8001 on a GeeBee seal. But I've used gorilla snot and it's stringy, messy, and goes on way thicker than you need. I think the cement GeeBee includes is Momentive SilGrip PSA529 & SRC18 Silicone Contact Adhesive. And a huge shout out to Guy as he has this packaged with mixing stick, measured bottles, a pipette for mixing small amounts, and even paint brushes to apply...its clear, just the right consistency to lightly apply just where you want it without running or dripping, and is SO much easier to use than 8001. If you're apprehensive about using GeeBee's cement...don't be. That's just silly. BAGGAGE TIPS: For the baggage door you want to install so that the "tail" of the "P" seal goes on the raised part of the door ~right around the edge of the door panel. You want to make sure you have enough exposed metal at the edge as there is a slight profile at the edge that will bind if you put the seal too close to the edge of the door. Also, by putting the tail on the raised section, it allows you to easily and smoothly turn the corners. The part closest to the hinge (top of the baggage door when closed) should be close to the raised section away from the hinge. So basically on the baggage door it's easily to follow the tail along the raised part lined up with the edge of the interior panel. Make sure you put your seam at the BOTTOM OF THE DOOR which is the higher part when you have the door open. MAIN TIPS: Get inside your aircraft and use a thin pencil stuck into the gap in front of the hold open arm. You can use a pencil to make a mark along the bottom frame of the aircraft to see where the seal should go. You can't quite get the entire bottom marked with a pencil, but you should be able to get enough to see the idea of where the radius of the door frame goes. Along the sides and top you want to center the "P" bulb roughly on the rivet heads, however you want to make sure that when compressed that the seal doesn't flatten past the edge of the door frame. Take a look at your door frame and it should be obvious where you want the bulb to hit the frame. Really the only tricky point is really at the front lower corner due to the gap from the hold open arm. If you followed the interior panel the seal would be in the gap and not sealing anything. With a pencil mark you can aim to have the edge of the tail at the pencil line to make sure the bulb is contacting the frame. Then once you turn the corner you can again align the bulb with the rivet line. I mixed up the epoxy into a small "baby food" size container that I got a 4-pack from Target. Take a small piece of seal to see where you need to apply the seal. So use the paint brush and apply a THIN layer of adhesive on the frame where you're going to put your seal. If you're doing both seals, then I'd suggest starting with the baggage door, then main. So apply think layer of adhesive to the frame of the baggage door, then apply to the main door. You can use a hair dryer to "speed up" the drying, but what I'd suggest is apply glue to both, then only use hair dryer on the baggage door and the main will dry while your applying the baggage seal. Use isopropyl alcohol to clean the seal. then start at the BOTTOM of the door (high point when door open) and apply a thin layer of adhesive on the seal tail up to the bulb (just the part that will lay flat). Use a hair dryer to dry until tacky. Then place the seal TAIL inside / BULB to the ouside. Extra points to apply the seal end between rivet heads so that each end will glue to flat metal instead of right over a rivet. If you're at a point where you can apply glue to the hanging seal you can apply to 10" of seal and dry. But slowly apply the seal when the glue is tacky and press firmly to adhere. I used small clips from Harbor freight (I bought 2 x 22 piece packs and it worked perfectly) to hold the seal as I moved along, but with the adhesive properly tacky the seal will hold itself. When I ran out of clips, I'd harvest from the initial clips placed and move the clip train along the seal. The adhesive is pressure sensitive so press the seal firmly and it will hold. When you get back to seam, cut the end of the seal LONG. Then slowly cut a little at a time until it requires very slight compression to fit. This will allow you to join the ends together with cement. Then move to the main door and make sure the adhesive is tacky...if not, you can use the hair dryer, but I'll bet you'll take at least 20 min standard dry time to apply the baggage door seal. Clean the seal with IPA. I started on the bottom of the main door and worked towards the hinge. That allowed me to follow the pencil line and turn the corner. Then it was smooth sailing to follow just inside the rivet line. HINT: you don't want the center of the bulb closer to the edge of the door than the center of the rivet line. Basically when the bulb is compressed, you don't want it extending past the edge of the door. I think mine were actually centered on the inside edge of the rivet line. On the main door with a moving blanket on the wing, its easy to keep the seal laying on the bulb and apply adhesive in a longer length of seal. But still apply to the door in 3-5" increments and press firmly to adhere and then use the clips. Once the seals are in place, go back though and make sure the seal is firmly pressed to the door after you've removed the clamps. Then let cure with doors open for 12-18 hours. The next day is the moment of truth. If you closed the door prematurely, you could possibly glue more of the bulb seal down to the frame than you need. I applied a thin layer of silicone lube/paste to the seal, wiped off the excess and then closed the door. Firm, but not cumbersome. Seals well all around. If you need a new seal, I wouldn't hesitate to use the seal and kit from @Gee Bee Aeroproducts. I was way more apprehensive about this than I should have been. But give yourself a good 3 day stretch to make sure you have plenty of time to finish and take your time. Day 1 clean off old seals, clean up and reassemble interior panels. Day 2 to apply new seals. Day 3 lube seal and close, then leave in the sun to fully dry and cure.

Who said to rotate a single engine piston? I’m big fan of teaching not only is the runway left behind you useless, as it the runway left ahead of you, accelerate build energy and pitch for vx or VY as appropriate. That’s what I do in my personal planes (one only has a A65) That said, positive rate and picking the best lift setting on a GA is universal, it extracts all the performance you’re going to get and unlike the jet the mooney has way less performance in a go around, I can bust 250kias single engine in the jet and have a initial climb rate at sea level on a OEI GA that beats the rate of a new Mooney, so if we want to be clean and high lift in a jet on the GA, I’d wager the piston pounder is even more so

We installed overhauled J model senders from Air Parts when we installed bladders this year. We made sure we had good wiring, new gaskets, new insulators, good grounds, etc. They work great now. No bouncing. No jitter. They even work well with the original fuel gages. I have an EDM-730 for everything else.

Something is not right. It looks like there may also be a longer vertical crack under the paint. I would definitely figure this out and fix it before it damages the vertical stab as that might be a very expensive repair.

Thank you very much.

Excellent, Thank you!

Aircraft Spruce 05-00037

Whether it's a go around or a touch n go, "positive rate, gear up" makes sense to me. I'm just verifying that the plane is climbing before raising the gear, so that I don't bounce the belly and prop on the runway. Did the descent stop when I added power? Am I climbing after touching, or just accelerating? A quick glance at my IVSI will confirm that it's safe to reach for the gear switch. I usually talk out loud while doing this.

Add Power, gear up, trim, flaps up, trim for climb. Same as every takeoff, just starting with some extra speed and altitude.

Curtiss Valve, Saf-Air make compatible valves. The spring in the Saf-Air is pretty stiff making sumping more difficult. Don’t overtighten when installing.

The drag demonstration was too simplistic. There are a lot more forces or reduction thereof involved in the go around that play a more important role in the decision to raise the gear first. A mechanical engineer would be more suited to sort that out than a flight instructor. The empirical fact remains that with the forces involved, raising the flaps first in the Mooney can have severe negative consequences, especially in the long body Mooneys. Raising the flaps causes a significant nose up moment the control of which increases the pilot workload beyond that required by raising the gear first. Couple that with increased p-factor and torque associated with advancing the throttle, and you're setting yourself up for possible control problems. Mooney was smart enough to change the order to gear up first in the Acclaim. Others can rationalize the reverse all they want at their own peril. I will continue to teach gear first as the safest method to use when initiating a go around in a Mooney.

does not look like aftermarket dorsal fin, check up trim limit, trim may just be rolling too far up

Does anyone know the part number for this fuel drain valve? Or a good replacement one. It's one of the ones on the bottom of the wings, not the belly. I looked in the parts catalog and couldn't figure out which one it is (Dukes or Christopher). I have an 83 M20J. Thanks,

If the most part if you have two 12V cigar plugs that is probably one more than the factory installed. Same with cup holders.

Same as take off. Don't mess with the flow. As I have found in a long body I don't think there is a time to land half flaps. So you are always full flaps. In the F I landed half flaps all the time unless I biffed the approach. If you are going around because of a bounce you already have enough energy to fly the plane straight and level. So add half throttle get level, side step. Gear, Trim, power, flaps. Adding the power will make the plane climb. continue to trim. If you are going around because of a fouled deck, plane, deer, car, you really have enough energy to level out with a bit of throttle. If you are going around because of your instructor, then you bitch him out for blowing what would be a perfect landing and follow up with the words "I hate you" There will times to firewall everything and then just be ready to hold her down and trim. Even the 244HP is a lot of immediate energy. I can't imagine firewalling a 300HP.

I hate when I hear that in Mooney, same for “rotate” I know it’s standard in professional flying as the pilot can’t distinguish between “rotation” and “climb”, they have an “eye height” of 50ft even when taxiing, they call rotate and V1/V2. There is nothing wrong with, * Accelerating single engine piston in ground effect, it’s not a jet ! * Retracting gear in ground effect without using vario > 0. The aircraft fly by itself, there is no rotation involved and it’s easy to know that it has lift-off, one can accelerate in ground effect, once they are at sensible speeds they can retract gear or flaps. I think drag flaps first is required in some GA (I recall Cessna with their 40deg flaps), however, retracting drag flaps at very slow speeds under VS1 near ground under 50ft lead to disasters (even in fixed gear, lot of Cirrus accidents are botched go-arounds or balked landings where pilots jumps on flaps under 60kts as they throw 310hp in front)

There is a reason why industry wide “positive rate grear up” and flaps gear flaps is a thing I’d think a Mooney would be the same

Yes if you are landing with takeoff flaps, it's simply another takeoff where you will raise gear and then flaps... When landing full flaps, there is the question of raising "drag flaps immediately" before gear or anything, I think this apply to some underpowered aircraft with +40deg flaps but I highly doubt this applies to Mooneys...

The Slick Start lights the hot engine off even without the impulse coupling engaged firing at 20 degrees BTC, think the threshold is 120 RPM, the Slick Start solves the mags biggest problem, i.e. low energy at low rpm, best used with retard breaker mag, at cruise rpm the the ignition energy in Joule for the mag is within 10% of the electroair, weight of both systems is about the same, both have their pros and cons

My first reaction is too much trim too often. Full Nose Up for every landing?

Anyone experience this with their tail? Any idea what causes this?

At 45 knots, my wheels are firmly on the ground, whether taking off or landing. I'm usually landing around ~72 mph = 62-1/2 knots over the numbers, and almost never with full flaps, in a continuous deceleration towards the ground. Then full throttle is just another takeoff--i.e., positive rate, gear up then flaps up, except it will require more down trim than a normal takeoff due to trimming nose up on final.

A better comparison is "raising the flaps first' vs. "raising gear first" at full power say between VS0 and VS1, say between 55kts-65kts when flying above 4000ft and see what happens? At 85kts, the exact order does not matter that much, go-around at these speeds are non event. In the other hand, things are more quirky between 50kts and 70kts, this is usually associated with balked landing, or botched flare, or bounce: the main risk is raising flaps between VS0 and VS1, this guarantee infinite drag and aircraft won't climb even with full power. Once past 85kts, one can do whatever they want with pitch, controls, configs...in any order. Under VS1 under 50ft, lot of brain and precise flying is required (one has already run out of speed & altitude) Personally, I would keep the flaps where they are until I have enough speed and brain. If I can't get enough speed well past VS1 in ground effect (after raising the gear), I would pull the mixture and cut the loss. Go-around from 85kts above 100ft agl are non-event, I can raise gear, falps and nose at the same time and it works !

Another thing that happens when the gear is up is the gear doors and the wheels plug the big holes under the wing. That helps a lot with climb, which is desirable on a go-around.

A more accurate test would be to takeoff with full flaps and gear down. On one flight, retract the flaps fully while leaving the gear down, on the second retract flaps to takeoff while leaving the gear down, and on the third retract the gear while leaving the flaps full. Rotate and climb at the same typical speed. Note the altitude when crossing the end of the runway. This would be way more realistic because after all the goal in a go-around is to get away from the ground as soon as possible, particularly on a short runway, and not about speed.