triple8s Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 What are the most common mistakes or.....what are the biggest difference in making the transition to the long body? I have a couple of hours and the first thing that hit me is getting stopped. It feels lots heavier, I am shooting for 75 kias over the numbers. Quote
Cris Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 The main difference between what you have been flying and the long body is how it sits on the ground. The following is from Trey Hughes Pilot review of the M20R. "When we talk about landings in the Ovation or any of the new generation long body Mooneys (M20M, M20R or M20S) we must talk about the landing attitude. As I mentioned earlier, the long bodies sit with about a positive 4.5 degrees pitch attitude on the ground. Pilots moving into the newer aircraft from one of the shorter length Mooneys (M20K or earlier) will immediately notice this difference when they first sit in the cockpit. Now thinking about sight picture and pitch attitude during the flare for landing, most aircraft will need about + 5-degrees during the round out to keep the nose wheel off the runway until the mains are on. This works quite well for all the Mooneys except the Ovation, Eagle or Bravo. With an almost 5-degree nose up attitude sitting level, the pitch attitude is going to need to be higher during landing in order to land on the main wheels before the nose. One of the biggest transition problems I have found for pilots moving into these long Mooneys is the landing – more specifically, landing on the nose first or all three simultaneously. Either action can quickly lead to a porpoise and the outcome of this isn't very pretty. Pilot must develop a different sight picture when landing these new Mooneys. Where 5-degrees worked before, 8-degrees is necessary now. This just takes practice and the help of a competent instructor familiar with long-body Mooneys. As with all Mooneys, airspeed control during the final approach is key. Fly too fast and the airplane will float on a cushion of air forever. " Also you will find that if your landing speed is 75 Kts at gross it needs to be about 5 Kts less when 300 lbs less than gross. If you are on airspeed with full flaps you will have max trim up which will set you up nicely for a landing with very little flare required. Be prepared for significant control input in a go around until you take out the trim. Basically your sight picture will be the horizon as you touch down. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 Now that you mention it. There are a few give and takes that come to mind.... At least in the landing phase. Takes: More Patience... More Precision... More Practice... Gives: More capabillities... More speed... More distance... More load... Speed control. The long body has more mass, speed and energy to be aware of to handle properly. My C used 75 mph. My R uses 75 kias. Sounds similar, but... Increase of speed is approx 15% Increase of mass more than 20% Increase of momentum is significant.... dm x dv Increase of stopping distance is bigger when mistakes are made. Key things to remember... Runways have stayed the same. Gravity still works the same. Apps have been invented to make W&B and density altitude easy calculations. There are flight recorder apps that can help you review your performance. Stay ahead of the plane, like before, but with more reason. That's my take on it. Transition was 65C ---> 94R Make sure your stall horn is working. Mine went on hiatus when I first got my O. Am I close, or did I go on a 310hp/TopProp rant??? That would be more in the T/O phase.... Best regards, -a- Cris' input above is from a top shelf, real flight instructor. My input is from ordinary PP experience. Be careful if you train with Cris' in his plane. The ATP/310HP/TopProp combination is inspiring.... 2 Quote
Z W Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 It is a lot heavier. Compare the gross weights. Getting stopped takes longer, no way around it. You will use more runway. The other thing I noticed going from a C to a K is the higher approach speeds for IFR. The heavier planes do better at higher speeds - usually 120 or 140 KIAS until the FAF. The short bodies don't go that fast and are happier at 100 KIAS or so. Quote
Cruiser Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 It is harder to put the nose wheel down softly during landing. After the mains touch the plane wants to drop the nose and the nose wheel will come down quickly if you don't keep the yoke back in your lap. It is possible to put the mains down and hold the nose wheel off as the plane slows. Keeping the nose too high and you will float back up (some count that as a second landing) not keeping the nose high enough and it hits hard immediately after the mains touch. Quote
MooneyMitch Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 The following is my opinion based on flying both an E model and an R model. For landings: The R is a heavier aircraft and braking distance is longer than the E. Landing speed for the R, across the fence, carrying mid-weight/mid-weight fuel/low wind issue, full flaps is approx. 65-68 knots. Landings at Oceano [L52], with a 2315 foot runway, I am off at the mid-field taxiway with little braking effort. Take your R up to a altitude and practice straight ahead stalls in different configurations. This will tell you what speeds can use comfortably as you cross the fence. Speed is the key. Quote
fantom Posted June 18, 2013 Report Posted June 18, 2013 Because of the mass, and slightly higer landing speed, brakes tend to wear out sooner, so check the pads more often. The R is a heavier aircraft and braking distance is longer than the E. Quote
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