Panel Upgrade

[GaryP1007]

I am interested in upgrading/adding on to my panel to enhance IFR capabilities.  Currently have a 430 as my GPS and was thinking of adding an Aspen.....but not sure what others would do.  Not looking for a tear down and rebuild...instead looking to enhance.  Thoughts?

[BorealOne]

An Aspen is an easy and cost effective enhancement that wont' require a tear-down to install.

[Oscar Avalle]

First question is your 430 WAAS. If not, then that would be a great first step.

 

Then an ASPEN would be great. It gives you significant IFR capabilities once you get used to it.

 

An autopilot (I have a STEC 30 with altitude hold)

 

These would be my suggestions.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/33744-my-panel-in-action/

[GaryP1007]

Thanks, yes the 430 is WAAS.  The AP is a King KAP150.  Currently no HSI only a DG.

[Oscar Avalle]

A cheaper option would be a used Sandel....

[M016576]

Thanks, yes the 430 is WAAS. The AP is a King KAP150. Currently no HSI only a DG.

You'll want some form of HSI.

The sandel SN3500 has a built in GPSS with the newest software. Used they can be found for anywhere from 3000-5000 dollars.

The aspen pilot pro pfd (the one with a HSI) costs about 11k installed. It's a nice piece of gear, too albeit a bit more expensive.

A mechanical HSI is also an option, but for the cost of the install, you might just want to go with a newer, glass unit.

Regardless of your choice, if you're getting into the IFR business, you'll want an HSI.

[Bob_Belville]

With the WAAS and the AP I would think the Aspen PRO would be a fine addition. You'd get GPSS which a big assist.

[KJATCt]

I have the aspen installed with a 430w. Money well spent. It even talks to my fuel flow and Britain ap.

[John Pleisse]

I have an Aspen and find it a worthy investment.

[GaryP1007]

Thanks for the opinions.  Very helpful.

[bd32322]

Dont forget if budget is tight you can also install an aspen pfd 1000 (non-pro) version. You wont get a HSI as a result. But you will get the ADHARS DG. You also wont get a box that talks to the autopilot ... But you can add the AP box later when budget allows and via a software upgrade your DG becomes a HSI .. Essentially transforming your aspen pfd 1000 to a pro.

The cost differential is significant. The non-pro is 6000 without installation. You might pay marginally higher labor fees when you later upgrade to pro, because you are doing something twice instead of everything at once.

Just in case anyone is looking to get there gradually instead of paying a lot at once.

[M016576]

Dont forget if budget is tight you can also install an aspen pfd 1000 (non-pro) version. You wont get a HSI as a result. But you will get the ADHARS DG. You also wont get a box that talks to the autopilot ... But you can add the AP box later when budget allows and via a software upgrade your DG becomes a HSI .. Essentially transforming your aspen pfd 1000 to a pro.

The cost differential is significant. The non-pro is 6000 without installation. You might pay marginally higher labor fees when you later upgrade to pro, because you are doing something twice instead of everything at once.

Just in case anyone is looking to get there gradually instead of paying a lot at once.

That's a decent plan, but he wouldn't be adding any capability really- he'd just have a glass display of the current instruments. If the OP wants to get ready for his Instrument ticket, he's going to want an HSI. Better to buy the 1000 pfd pro, or if money is tight, a cheaper HSI, rather than the cheaper but far less capable pfd 1000 (JMHO on this one as a CFII).

[bd32322]

That's a decent plan, but he wouldn't be adding any capability really- he'd just have a glass display of the current instruments. If the OP wants to get ready for his Instrument ticket, he's going to want an HSI. Better to buy the 1000 pfd pro, or if money is tight, a cheaper HSI, rather than the cheaper but far less capable pfd 1000 (JMHO on this one as a CFII).

Except that the ADHARS unit has a very high mean time between failure and is much more reliable than the mechanical gyros - thats the principal selling point for me. That and no frequent gyro overhauls ..

Also I dont care much about an HSI presentation given todays geo referenced approach charts etc. But I would definitely like to get the pro and the HSI just because it lets me get rid of another mechanical and possibly inaccurate-when-you-need-it instrument - the nav indicators.

[M016576]

Except that the ADHARS unit has a very high mean time between failure and is much more reliable than the mechanical gyros - thats the principal selling point for me. That and no frequent gyro overhauls ..

Also I dont care much about an HSI presentation given todays geo referenced approach charts etc. But I would definitely like to get the pro and the HSI just because it lets me get rid of another mechanical and possibly inaccurate-when-you-need-it instrument - the nav indicators.

I can't imagine shooting an approach without an HSI even with geo-referenced approach plates. That could be because I've logged thousands of approaches using "possibly inaccurate-when-you-need-it instruments" rather than the geo-referenced charts. We are creatures of habit to be certain.

I like having the geo-referenced approach plates as an SA enhancer / reference when available, but I don't fly off of them (nor would I recommend that). When I'm actually flying an approach, I want two needles- glideslope and course. That presentation is typically on an HSI. Again, that's just me. I'm sure other guys have their own techniques, but mine have served me well as a professional pilot for many years.

[danb35]

The sandel SN3500 has a built in GPSS with the newest software. Used they can be found for anywhere from 3000-5000 dollars.

We need to make sure we're comparing apples to apples.  If you buy a used Sandel, you'll also need a King KG102 and KMT112, and then there's installation.  The $3-5k you're mentioning would cover just the used 3500 from what I've seen--probably looking at $7-8k all in to get it installed.  At that point, it's getting really close to an Aspen.  If you know where I can get a current revision Sandel 3500 installed under $5k total (or even a 3308, closer to the $3k mark), I'd be very interested to hear about it.

[bd32322]

I can't imagine shooting an approach without an HSI even with geo-referenced approach plates. That could be because I've logged thousands of approaches using "possibly inaccurate-when-you-need-it instruments" rather than the geo-referenced charts. We are creatures of habit to be certain.

I like having the geo-referenced approach plates as an SA enhancer / reference when available, but I don't fly off of them (nor would I recommend that). When I'm actually flying an approach, I want two needles- glideslope and course. That presentation is typically on an HSI. Again, that's just me. I'm sure other guys have their own techniques, but mine have served me well as a professional pilot for many years.

Yes I didnt mean fly an approach using a geo referenced chart .. Lol

By inaccurate instruments I was referring to mechanical course deviation indicators on HSIs and indicators versus solid state devices like aspen. I wasnt saying nav indicator better than hsi or something. Thats another argument thats useless.

And like I was saying .. You do not know when those indicators are off because the mechanical ones have a much higher fail rate than the solid state ones. Again the argument is between mechanical and solid state, not HSI vs indicator.

Yes ultimately I would like to go to an aspen hsi, but for the budget conscious I would still get the baby aspen first and then switch up to the pro. Not sure how much HSIs cost to overhaul if they go bad on your watch, but the overhaul cost will be a significant chunk of the aspen !

[gjkirsch]

Gary

 

I do not know what model Mooney you are starting with or what your personal longer term plans are for your flying.  Is the plane all you could ever want and are keeping it forever (at least 5 years anyhow) or are you already thinking in the next couple of years I want a whatever?  As we all know, these planes are not cheap and you may be upgrading the best deal the next guy got. 

[GaryP1007]

I spoke to my avionics guy about the Aspen.  He likes it but suggested a few other options.....If I were to trade the 430W for a GTN750 it would be $11K (due to trade value) installed.  If I did the Aspen and kept the 430W it would be $13.5.  Not a big money difference but interesting enough.  

 

He also said he might think about a gdl 39 and a new transponder to add traffic and free weather to my yoke mounted Garmin Aera as well as iPad.  

 

Just passing on another point of view.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[Bob_Belville]

$13,500 is exactly what I paid to install an Aspen PDF Pro including removing a HSI, VSI, and ADF and moving the altimeter and integrating the Aspen with a new GTN 750 and existing STEC50 and KX 155.

 

I sold the Narco HSI and the KR 87 ADF for about $1200 offsetting some of the cost.

 

I added a GDL 88 to get the traffic, free weather. It required replacing the KT76A transponder which we did with a GTX 327. The transponder cost $2100 installed (less the $500 received for the old xponder) and the GDL 88 about $4000. 

[Marauder]

I spoke to my avionics guy about the Aspen.  He likes it but suggested a few other options.....If I were to trade the 430W for a GTN750 it would be $11K (due to trade value) installed.  If I did the Aspen and kept the 430W it would be $13.5.  Not a big money difference but interesting enough.  

 

He also said he might think about a gdl 39 and a new transponder to add traffic and free weather to my yoke mounted Garmin Aera as well as iPad.  

 

Just passing on another point of view.

 

Thanks for the replies.

I would carefully check the math on any trade in deals. I see used 430W units selling for a lot more than what he is offering. I was quoted $14,500 installed price for a GTN750. The Aspen PFD Pro installed price was $11k. So, let's say you get the 750 for $11k, it looks like he is offering you around $3.5k for your 430W. I think used they go for more than that.

 

Also, you will need an indicator for the GTN. Will your existing CDI work with it? If not, is he providing that in the $11k?

 

At $13.5k, I think that is high for an Aspen PFD Pro. None of the quotes I got came in over $12.5k. You should also take a look at the Aspen rebates that are going on. I ended up with $2k back from Aspen.

 

I spent a lot of time and energy on getting avionics quotes as has many here. Let us know the details and we can help you decide if it is a fair deal.

[Marauder]

I spoke to my avionics guy about the Aspen.  He likes it but suggested a few other options.....If I were to trade the 430W for a GTN750 it would be $11K (due to trade value) installed.  If I did the Aspen and kept the 430W it would be $13.5.  Not a big money difference but interesting enough.  

 

He also said he might think about a gdl 39 and a new transponder to add traffic and free weather to my yoke mounted Garmin Aera as well as iPad.  

 

Just passing on another point of view.

 

Thanks for the replies.

I just re-read your post. If you keep your 430W and install the Aspen Pro, you can sell the CDI you have for it. Not sure the FMV but it could be worth some good money. You may have mentioned your second radio in your message but I am too lazy to re-read everything. What is it? Another advantage of the Aspen is that you can use the unit to display your other Nav indications on the same HSI display.

[Oscar Avalle]

I would tend to agree with Maurader's post. if you were to go with the 750 only (and don't take me wrong I LOVE THE 750) instead of an ASPEN you would get short changed (specially if you still have a 430), With the ASPEN you also get a moving map and a GPS back up, in addition to the glass cockpit set up.

 

IMHO I would go for the ASPEN and wait for a 750 or 650, Another option for a later stage, could be to get a 796 which can provide you with weather and traffic if you connect it to a ZAON at a much cheaper price than a 750. However, as a first step I would go with the ASPEN.

 

I just re-read your post. If you keep your 430W and install the Aspen Pro, you can sell the CDI you have for it. Not sure the FMV but it could be worth some good money. You may have mentioned your second radio in your message but I am too lazy to re-read everything. What is it? Another advantage of the Aspen is that you can use the unit to display your other Nav indications on the same HSI display.