W100 Plus and CamGuard

[N9453V]

My O-360-A1D had been run on W100 for the first 1400 hours since reman in 2004. I switched to W100 Plus at the recommendation of an MSC in California and have been using it for the past 300 hours, changing the oil every 50 hours (which averages 4 months with my usage).

Now, I'm wondering if there's any advantage to using CamGuard along with W100 Plus or if I should consider switching to another type of oil?

This Aviation Consumer response (scroll down) seems to indicate it may be redundant: http://www.aviationconsumer.com/letters/Wing-Deicing-and-Icing-Conditions.html

-Andrew

[BigTex]

Mike Busch also said it's redundant. Check out his webinar entitled "All About Oil." If you want to use Camguard, go with either X/C 20W50 or W100.

[Bolter]

The multi weight Shell 15-50 has the same additives as the 100W plus, correct? If so, then the same logic applies to that oil with respect to additional additives.

-dan

[KSMooniac]

It is my understanding that none of the additives in the oils on the market actually do what Camguard does, which is why there is a place for it in the market. The additives in the A/S + and 15-50 don't really "help" the cam corrosion problem in our Lycomings either, so I use Phillips + Camguard. Av Consumer has repeatedly recommended this combo FWIW.

[jetdriven]

IIRC Ed Kollin claims something like 20 times the additives that W100+ has, and its several things, not just Triphenyl pshosphate. Thats just an anti-scuff additive.

[aerobat95]

It is my understanding that none of the additives in the oils on the market actually do what Camguard does, which is why there is a place for it in the market. The additives in the A/S + and 15-50 don't really "help" the cam corrosion problem in our Lycomings either, so I use Phillips + Camguard. Av Consumer has repeatedly recommended this combo FWIW.

What Phillips do you use?? Is it the 66 X/C 20W50?

I am using Exxon Elite + Camguard......the Exxon is significantly more per quart.....am I wasting money on the Exxon??

[garytex]

Quote: I am using Exxon Elite + Camguard......the Exxon is significantly more per quart.....am I wasting money on the Exxon??

Some folks use the Elite if they are receiving anomalous high copper oil analysis readings with Shell multi. Only happens on Lycs. Goes away with Elite use.

Gary

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[fantom]

Hi, Ray. Yes, if you are concerned about cam corrosion Phillips X/C 20W50 with CamGuard is the way to go. According to Aviation Consumer, there is no need to spend on Elite if you are going to use CamGuard too.

Jim

I wonder....if an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, I see no harm in using Elite. If buying by the case, the increased cost is about $15 per oil change, and if you change oil every four months, we're talking less than $50 a year. Cheap peace of mind when compared to the ForeFlight, and multiple GPS updates many "invest" in, so as not to get lost.

[N9453V]

Thanks for the replies. So, is there any drawback to switching to Phillips 20W50 with CamGuard? What are the pros/cons of using a single grade vs. a multigrade?

-Andrew

[jetdriven]

Consurmer reports articles said the oil companies saw no benefit to stright weight oil over multigrade. You know, X/C came out in 1975. They all continue making it solely because some old salt mechanics will only but straight weight oil. Send me your email, Andy, I will send you the articles.

We used to be hard believers in W100 and camguard, and oil analysis. Then 250 hours in, 3 lifters spalled out and killed the whole engine. So, now, its X/C, adding camguard soon, and infrequent oil analysis.

[201er]

Byron, could you send me the articles as well.

[Lood]

Me too, please Byron.

Interesting, I discussed the whole oil thing with my AME just last week during my Mooney's first 50 hr oil change after being overhauled. The engine shop advised me to run the engine on straight oil up to 100 hrs before switching oils. However, I forgot to tell the AME this and only discovered that they had put in W100 when it was too late. They did assure me though that they change over from straight oil after 50 hrs on all engines and have never encountered any problems.

On my question why they used W100 instead of W100 plus, they claimed that they followed the advise of a big organization, on the same airfield. This outfit runs probably the biggest flight school in Africa. They have their own engine shop, among others and they have many, many airplanes and helicopters, used for training. Apparently, they have better results using W100 compared to W100 plus. I didn't go to the trouble to go find out exactly why, but general feeling was that when opened up, the engines had less wear when used with W100.

Anyhow, my AME also uses Avblend, together with the W100. He claims that since they've started using it, they've never had stuck valves, etc., etc. since. He also mentioned that they are probably converting to using Phillips oils before the end of this year.

Unfortunately, Camguard is not readily available in South Africa, but how does Avblend compare with Camguard?

[KSMooniac]

You absolutely DO NOT want to use W100+ during break-in! The anti-scuff additives work against the break-in process, so be thankful you didn't use it. I broke in my cylinders with W80 3.5 years ago with great success and everything continues to be fine.

W80, W100, Phillips XC 20-50 are all fine choices depending on OAT, and of course with Camguard added. A/S 15-50 and Exxon Elite are so-called premium oils that don't offer any benefits compared to the less expensive oils + Camguard according to everything I've read. The premiums do not additives that duplicate what Camguard does.

Avblend is a totally different product than Camguard, and is reasonably considered to be snake oil. Look at the ingredients... It is "FAA Approved" but that means it doesn't do any harm. It doesn't have to do any good, either.

[1TJ]

What Phillips do you use?? Is it the 66 X/C 20W50?

I am using Exxon Elite + Camguard......the Exxon is significantly more per quart.....am I wasting money on the Exxon??

I recommend and use Phillips 20W-50 XCll.

I do not recommend the semi-synthetic oils because of sludge issues.

Ed

Edward Kollin

Technical Director

Aircraft Specialties Lubricants