Engine Gages

[Oscar Avalle]

Most of my engine gages in my M20C, with the exception of the Fuel Gages, are not working well. The indications are not reliable, they get stuck, or they simply stop working. I installed a JPI 730, but obviously I need the old gages in order to be 100% legal. My mechanic told me that the best solution would be to replace them, however he could not tell me where I could get them. So, I was wondering if somebody knows where I could buy them...

Thank you very much for your advice.

 

Oscar

[sleepingsquirrel]

I saw the pictures of your Mooney panel .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mooney-Instrument-cluster-NO-RESERVE-1967-M20F-Shunt-/230840399481?hash=item35bf28f679&item=230840399481&pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&vxp=mtr

 

 

[danb35]

I don't know where you'd go to replace them.  However, I've heard good things about Air Parts of Lock Haven as a repair station--they're said to be able to repair just about anything in the way of instruments.

[Sabremech]

I've purchased a brand new 6 pack of gauges from Mitchell instruments and am doing a 337 for the install. No more expensive repairs or problems getting parts. I'll post a picture of the cluster and the P/N's if you're interested?

[M20F-1968]

For all that are interested, I have a working nice set of gauges from a 1967 F model, as well as a nice working set from a J model.  The F model gauges were removed for a 201 panel upgrade and the J model gauges were removed when the prior owner parted out the airplane at his wife's insistence (she was a lawyer and was afraid of the liability of selling an airplane he had worked on for many years).  You can e-mail me at johnabreda@yahoo.com if interested or call me at (617) 877-0025.  I can send pictures when I am at my home computer.

Thanks,

John Breda

[1964-M20E]

I have a set I'll be removing from a 65E model I'm parting out.  jlawrence@cmaaccess.com

[MagicCarpet]

John,

You still trying to sell parts of your 67F, including the RayJay?

[M20F-1968]

Yes, I have a bunch of parts left over from this project.  Trying to clean out the hangar.  I still have the RayJay system - completely rebuilt, with both STC's, drawing and diagrams.  Is there anything that you might need?

My 68 F is now flying and in annual.  It is to be painted this month.

John Breda

[Sabremech]

Here's a picture of the brand new 6 pack instrument cluster I'm putting in my 66 C model. Very affordable and with support. It's a nice option versus rebuilding or repairing the old gauges.

[jetdriven]

what the cost of that vs the cost of a JPI 930 etc?

 

[lahso]

Very nice, David. I have a 1966 C model as well, and have often thought of replacing the cluster. Thanks for sharing this.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: jetdriven

what the cost of that vs the cost of a JPI 930 etc?

 

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: jetdriven

what the cost of that vs the cost of a JPI 930 etc?

 

[scottfromiowa]

Interested in the process for connecting the new fuel gauges as this would involve eliminating the "big pig" connector.  I would be interested in the STC for the left/right fuel gauges vs. the OEM gauges and old heavy connector that is NOT being used except for fuel.  I had to keep the housing the gauges were in also...

[Sabremech]

The cost of this 6 pack cluster is $792.12 including the 4 new sensors (CHT, Oil temp, Oil pressure, and Amp) and modular prewired rack. It uses the original fuel sending units in our tanks so no need to go into the fuel tanks.

The cost of the JPI 930 is $5467 and the EI MVP-50 is $4997 from Aircraft Spruce. These costs are substantially more than I'm willing to put in my 1966 C model. 

 I will be installing this 6 pack gauge cluster and working on the cowling STC project during my upcoming annual in October.

[omega708]

Those look significantly better than my stock guages.  Please post a copy of the 337 and let us know about the labor to install etc after you've got them up and running.

 

Thanks,

Justin

[M20F-1968]

Just to add my 2 cents and experience...

The FAA is not going to authorize a 337 on non-STC'd and/or TSO'd gauges where monitoring fuel and engine status are concerned.  The thought of a 337 is nice, but the FAA is not doing outright field approvals, and a DER will not approve such gauges without approved data which he/she can act upon.  The choices still are the original gauges that are approved for the aircraft or an already STC'd gauge set such as the JPI 930.  One can apply for an STC on non-approved gauges, but the lead time on such a project is not short and owners should not expect to be using such gauges anytime soon if at all.

John Breda

[Sabremech]

Hi John. you are correct to a point, but these gauges are FAA/PMA and I already have pre-approval of my FAA form 337 from my PMI at the FSDO. You are incorrect that the FAA will no longer do field approvals. They are still more than happy to help out and understand that our vintage aircraft are lacking in parts support and that it isn't cost effective to spend $5-6 K on our old airplanes to replace these instruments. These are the issues that I'm working on with my company, Vintage Airworks. I'm here to support the old airplanes. I very well may take this instrument cluster through the STC process to make it easier and more affordable for other vintage Mooney owners.

 

[flight2000]

And on that note, I'm afraid John is spot on.  I asked around and most of the answers I got from A&P's and from the Kansas City FSDO were as he mentioned above.  You can try, just be prepared for the bad news.  I ended up going to Sigma-Tek for new fuel gauges.  They hold the certificates for the old Garwin data and performance specs and are PMA for the Mooney gauges.  Not cheap either at $330 a pop, but they make them as they are ordered. 

http://www.sigmatek.com/cluster_gauges.html

 

Brian

[N601RX]

I had a discussion with my IA about 337's last week. He works through the Birmingham office and has no problems getting them approved as long as the part was manufactured under a pma. They do want more info than they did 20 years ago, such as the 18 item ICA.  He said give them what want and the process is usually straightfoward. 

[Sabremech]

Hi Brian, not to get into a huge debate here, but I am an A&P/IA and have done STC's as well as holding an FAA/PMA with my two companies. I'm in direct contact with the FAA on a regular basis discussing projects that I would like to do and also finding out what data I can use as an approval or acceptable basis. I'll be happy to share my 337 when I'm finished. If something comes up where I'm shot down, I'll be man enough to admit it on this forum. Just a little more information, I worked directly with my local FAA before I purchased these gauges and he was satisfied after talking with the manufacturer that there was enough data for a field approval.

[flight2000]

HI David, I wasn't questioning it, just saying what the FSDO told me in KC.  That is my single, biggest complaint about the system.  The FSDO's are not equal or the same across the board.  Something that is okay in one, will get thrown out in another.  They all have the same objective for safety, just different interpretations on how it gets done and what gets approved. 

Brian

[N601RX]

It may have something to do with which IA is asking the FSDO also.  There are some that have a good working relationship with their FSDO and interact with them on a regular basis. There are also some that will go to the extreme to avoid any contact with them.  Guess which one gets stuff approved.

[Oscar Avalle]

Thank you for all your feedback... extremely useful. At the end I am going to replace my original gauges with a set of used ones...Although I have to say I feel much safer looking at my JPI 830.

[jetdriven]

THat 600-800$ for two garwin fuel guages goes a ways towards a JPI-900.   Also, David is right, get a good FSDO, and use PMA parts that are from another aircraft application and use that as basis for your 337.  I had a friend with old Steward Warner fuel guages in a 1961 172B. After half tanks, they indicated empty.  Legal, yep. Safe? NFW.