midlifeflyer Posted July 20 Report Posted July 20 4 hours ago, toto said: I’m hoping that Aviation Consumer or someone will do a long form side-by-side YouTube review of SmartCharts vs Dynamic Procedures. Based purely on the name, SmartCharts is clearly the better product ”Dynamic Procedures” is a mouthful, and I’d have no idea what you were talking about if I had no context. Sounds like a new FAA policy for traffic flow. Having used both, these are two different products, not attempted clones of each other. At their most basic level, Dynamic Procedures is a Map informational overlay; SmartCharts are terminal areas charts (IAPs, SIDs and STARs). Intended use is different. SmartCharts are a potential chart replacement. As Garmin says in some of it's videos on the product, SmartCharts satisfy FAA requirements (at least in the Part 91 world). Once the offering is complete, you could conceivably fly with only SmartCharts without either FAA or Jepp terminal charts. Foreflight's Dynamic Procedures, OTOH, are not. They may start from the same data source, but as FF specifically says on the Sidebar, you are expected to This is not a huge surprise. FF is part of the same company as Jepp. If FF said you could replace Jepp Charts with these, that would be the surprise. One of the more practical differences is the depiction of weather and traffic. As a Map overlay, with Dynamic Procedures, it's there. SmartCharts, as somehting separate from the Map, do not (currently?) display those. But, unlike Foreflight, Pilot does split screen and, from playing with that, the SmarCharts are so decluttered that I think they work well side by side with the Map (so long as you leave the vertical profile off). These are two different approaches, but with every turned on that can be at any one time, you can get an small idea of the basic differences between the two. It will definitely be interesting to see a full side-by-side comparison, but I'm not sure if Aviation Consumer is the place. I did a few comparison articles in IFR and it was always difficult even when trying to show only a single feature (I did one on custom holds). A bunch of words don't do it justice compared to a video, and in this case, you'd probably need 30 pages to cover something that could be shown better in a video flying even one procedure with both 2
toto Posted July 20 Report Posted July 20 51 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said: Having used both, these are two different products, not attempted clones of each other. At their most basic level, Dynamic Procedures is a Map informational overlay; SmartCharts are terminal areas charts (IAPs, SIDs and STARs). Intended use is different. SmartCharts are a potential chart replacement. As Garmin says in some of it's videos on the product, SmartCharts satisfy FAA requirements (at least in the Part 91 world). Once the offering is complete, you could conceivably fly with only SmartCharts without either FAA or Jepp terminal charts. Foreflight's Dynamic Procedures, OTOH, are not. They may start from the same data source, but as FF specifically says on the Sidebar, you are expected to This is not a huge surprise. FF is part of the same company as Jepp. If FF said you could replace Jepp Charts with these, that would be the surprise. One of the more practical differences is the depiction of weather and traffic. As a Map overlay, with Dynamic Procedures, it's there. SmartCharts, as somehting separate from the Map, do not (currently?) display those. But, unlike Foreflight, Pilot does split screen and, from playing with that, the SmarCharts are so decluttered that I think they work well side by side with the Map (so long as you leave the vertical profile off). These are two different approaches, but with every turned on that can be at any one time, you can get an small idea of the basic differences between the two. It will definitely be interesting to see a full side-by-side comparison, but I'm not sure if Aviation Consumer is the place. I did a few comparison articles in IFR and it was always difficult even when trying to show only a single feature (I did one on custom holds). A bunch of words don't do it justice compared to a video, and in this case, you'd probably need 30 pages to cover something that could be shown better in a video flying even one procedure with both Sorry, when I said Aviation Consumer, I meant a YouTube video from AC (not a print article). https://youtube.com/@aviationconsumermagazine450 Thanks for all of your comments here. This is super helpful. I’ve spent some time with SmartCharts and I really like the presentation. I’ve never seen the FF product, so I didn’t have a super clear idea of their different approaches. 1
Rick Junkin Posted July 21 Report Posted July 21 On 7/20/2025 at 2:44 PM, midlifeflyer said: At their most basic level, Dynamic Procedures is a Map informational overlay; SmartCharts are terminal areas charts (IAPs, SIDs and STARs). Intended use is different. SmartCharts are a potential chart replacement. Thanks for this. I had come to this same observation from pouring over the material Foreflight has released but you’ve confirmed it. I’m starting to think Garmin Pilot is going to win me over. Foreflight started out as a weather-centric planning app and I think still does that better, but Garmin really got the jump on them with SmartCharts. It’s already been mentioned but I also think Foreflight was limited in how they were going to implement a comparable capability by being shackled to Jeppesen. Foreflight couldn’t implement a capability that could replace Jepp charts. And that’s exactly what Garmin did! Procedures dynamically tailored to show only the information relevant to your specific SID/STAR/approach requirements and equipment capabilities. What could be better? Some things in Garmin Pilot still feel clumsy but that’s likely a matter of me getting more time with the app and establishing new “brain muscle memory”. There are some Foreflight advanced features I’ll miss but nothing really that important. I have almost a year left on both Foreflight and Garmin Pilot subscriptions so I’ll see which one is my go-to in a year.
midlifeflyer Posted July 22 Report Posted July 22 11 hours ago, Rick Junkin said: I have almost a year left on both Foreflight and Garmin Pilot subscriptions so I’ll see which one is my go-to in a year If you’ve set it up that way, it’s the way to go. An EFB is more than any one feature and I’m not sure any one feature is a good reason to make a change. I run both for instructional purposes (and because I’m a geek when it comes to avionics and EFBs) and often come across things i think one or the other does better. But the ultimate choice of one or the other is about the whole package. Since you have the choice, see which one you actually go to more often.
Rick Junkin Posted July 23 Report Posted July 23 On 7/22/2025 at 6:57 AM, midlifeflyer said: An EFB is more than any one feature and I’m not sure any one feature is a good reason to make a change. Completely agree. I really wanted to like Garmin Pilot when I upgraded my panel a couple of years ago (dang, has it been that long???), but just couldn't commit to riding the learning curve to get proficient with it. Speaking of being a geek, I even bought a Garmin watch to go with the new avionics , another push toward GP. And now with the introduction of SmartCharts I have yet ANOTHER motivation to take a closer look. I think GP is the better app for inflight management, but Foreflight's flight planning and briefing functions are cleaner, in my opinion. It stands to reason, as GP started out primarily as a GPS and navigation app, and Foreflight started out primarily as a weather and planning app. Each still does best what it did first. My biggest issue is I've really grown to like the "Flights" page in Foreflight and all of the planning and performance data it presents on one page. I use the integrated W&B and takeoff and landing data (TOLD) buttons on every flight. I have the muscle memory on weather study and briefing, as well as filing and amending/cancelling flight plans. GP doesn't do TOLD, or at least I haven't figured out where yet. But the thing is I don't NEED my EFB to do that for me, I'm just used to it being available. It's things like that I'm looking at now with a jaundiced eye, along with making myself learn the Garmin way. I'm still struggling with liking the weather functions and briefing, but I can get them to work well enough. I really think Garmin took a leap ahead with SmartCharts, especially with the comparatively kludged-together implementation of overlays in Foreflight's Dynamic Procedures. Time will tell, but Garmin has designed what can be a stand-alone replacement for heritage procedure plates. I think the simplification and potential flight safety improvements SmartCharts bring will be the beginning of GP's rise in market share unless Foreflight refines their game. Less is more in this instance, and laying more stuff on top of already busy stuff isn't gonna win fans in the general aviation market. But maybe we aren't Foreflight's target consumer anymore. 2
good2eat Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 ForeFlight’s answer feels like a rushed out panic reaction to Garmin’s SmartCharts….kind of an “Oh sh**!!
PeteMc Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 1 hour ago, good2eat said: ForeFlight’s answer feels like a rushed out panic reaction to Garmin’s SmartCharts….kind of an “Oh sh**!! I'm guessing they had it all ready to go and were waiting for OSH to announce. Then G Pilot decided to release early to get all the buzz. 1
Fly Boomer Posted July 24 Author Report Posted July 24 8 hours ago, PeteMc said: I'm guessing they had it all ready to go and were waiting for OSH to announce. Then G Pilot decided to release early to get all the buzz. Much more likely. You don't just fart out new code in a week, and hope for the best. 2
TaildraggerPilot Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 FF is still a better product. It’s much more refined. The FPL tab is fantastic for flight planning. 1
midlifeflyer Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 FF users: "Forelight is better" GP users: "Pilot is better." 2
Rick Junkin Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said: FF users: "Forelight is better" GP users: "Pilot is better." Yup
TaildraggerPilot Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 I have and use both products, but the only real reason I subscribe to GP is the interface to control XM audio on my GDL52R. FF is better in most every way.
Rick Junkin Posted August 1 Report Posted August 1 Hmm. I'm guessing there were some discoveries and learning that occurred from the public hands-on opportunity at Airventure that prompted some revisions to Dynamic Procedures. Foreflight has officially missed the advertised July release. To be fair, I can't recall if Foreflight directly advertised a July release for Dynamic Procedures or if it was something stated in a third party article. But they have been doing monthly releases for some time now, and there wasn't one in July. And they did state a 90 day initial release period for all subscription levels through October. I haven't been able to find anything put out by Foreflight talking about what they're doing or offering an estimated release date for the Dynamic Procedures capability. Has anyone found any new information? I know it's probably early to be looking for info, but this isn't a good look for Foreflight. And the Dynamic Procedures webinar is still scheduled for August 6th. Have they released a beta beyond 17.7.2? @midlifeflyer? @daytonabch04?
midlifeflyer Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 14 hours ago, Rick Junkin said: Have they released a beta beyond 17.7.2 Yes. All it means to me is that FF feels it’s not ready for prime time. 1
daytonabch04 Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 18 hours ago, Rick Junkin said: Hmm. I'm guessing there were some discoveries and learning that occurred from the public hands-on opportunity at Airventure that prompted some revisions to Dynamic Procedures. Foreflight has officially missed the advertised July release. To be fair, I can't recall if Foreflight directly advertised a July release for Dynamic Procedures or if it was something stated in a third party article. But they have been doing monthly releases for some time now, and there wasn't one in July. And they did state a 90 day initial release period for all subscription levels through October. I haven't been able to find anything put out by Foreflight talking about what they're doing or offering an estimated release date for the Dynamic Procedures capability. Has anyone found any new information? I know it's probably early to be looking for info, but this isn't a good look for Foreflight. And the Dynamic Procedures webinar is still scheduled for August 6th. Have they released a beta beyond 17.7.2? @midlifeflyer? @daytonabch04? I'm currently on 17.7.4 for FF. It's been minor updates since. 1
dkkim73 Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 On 7/24/2025 at 7:47 AM, Fly Boomer said: Much more likely. You don't just fart out new code in a week, and hope for the best. Somewhere a product manager is smiling at you and pretending he's listening to you, but going to do the same thing anyway. 1
dkkim73 Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 26 minutes ago, daytonabch04 said: I'm currently on 17.7.4 for FF. It's been minor updates since. I, for one, would prefer they take the time and do it right. Continuous delivery (CI/CD) is great in many ways, but rushing things out and then fixing them, or having users keep learning new things, creates its own issues in high-reliability environments. IMHO I think Foreflight actually manages this part pretty well, hope they keep doing so. I'm looking forward to trying it. I like the GP version but am still on Foreflight due to familiarity and performance profiles. 2
Rick Junkin Posted August 2 Report Posted August 2 9 hours ago, midlifeflyer said: Yes. All it means to me is that FF feels it’s not ready for prime time. 5 hours ago, daytonabch04 said: I'm currently on 17.7.4 for FF. It's been minor updates since. 4 hours ago, dkkim73 said: I, for one, would prefer they take the time and do it right. Continuous delivery (CI/CD) is great in many ways, but rushing things out and then fixing them, or having users keep learning new things, creates its own issues in high-reliability environments. IMHO I think Foreflight actually manages this part pretty well, hope they keep doing so. I'm looking forward to trying it. I like the GP version but am still on Foreflight due to familiarity and performance profiles. Thanks for the info. My expectations are too high . I was looking for communication from Foreflight saying something along the lines of, "Thanks for all of the great feedback we received at Airventure! We're taking the time to incorporate your suggestions before we fully release Dynamic Procedures." Or something like that. But I imagine the actual situation is closer to the development team needing to correct some discoveries identified before and during the Airventure demonstrations of the beta. I wholeheartedly agree the best path is to make sure it's right before release. However, having worked for Boeing for 22 years, I also have a cynical outlook on any communications from the company and its subsidiaries regarding "coming attractions" that include projected dates or even time frames. Now I'm just curious if the release will come before or after the webinar on the 6th. It sure would be nice to have the new software to play along during the webinar.
Rick Junkin Posted August 4 Report Posted August 4 Not a YouTube video, but the latest Aviation Consumer has a Foreflight/Garmin Pilot comparison article. I heard echos while reading it, the author could have used this thread for some of his source material https://digital.emagazines.com/the_aviation_consumer/20250804/mobile/index.html?t=7bcd3f1e-e63a-404d-9cc9-06893ca0f55b&utm_content=email_cover&utm_campaign=aviation_consumer_file_1#p6 1
flyingscot Posted August 4 Report Posted August 4 The Foreflight update containing Dynamic Procedures (17.7.4) was posted 2h ago to the iPhone App Store. 2
exM20K Posted August 4 Report Posted August 4 Only the RNAV 14 at my Florida base is authorized at night. I loaded a night flight there with the RNAV 24 in the flight plan, and the notes section is silent on NA at night. I’ll try it for real this evening, but at first blush, there appear to be some issues still to be addressed.
hammdo Posted August 4 Report Posted August 4 Their out is “verify with chart’… but agree still some work to do… -Don
exM20K Posted August 5 Report Posted August 5 I’m in as a Class A airplane, so maybe a future version would omit helicopter notes, too. I will verify all this in flight before reporting it to FF. -dan
exM20K Posted August 5 Report Posted August 5 Circling minimums are presented when you select the approach. They don’t persist in the display after adding the approach.
Rick Junkin Posted August 5 Report Posted August 5 8 minutes ago, exM20K said: Circling minimums are presented when you select the approach. They don’t persist in the display after adding the approach. Interestingly Garmin Pilot does the same, but going back to select circling mins is only two button presses. In Foreflight it takes at least four button presses and possibly some scrolling.
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