Purchasing Moony 20E

[KSMooniac]

I think you did well. Hopefully you don't find any surprises once you dig in.

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[nevadabandit]

Has anyone had experience with the AD concerning the empennage attach fittings? It appears to be very limited to which aircraft it affects.

[MB65E]

Only E I remember it effecting was SN 761. That was my old house address. 
-Matt

[MBDiagMan]

To the OP:  What should your concerns be?  Valve lifters!  If the engine is new but hasn’t been run in four years, I would do lots of research on how common it is for lifters spalling after long periods of no operation.  If they corrode a tiny bit, the pits can start eroding, strewing metal throughout the engine wreaking havoc.  Been there, done that.

If you are a mechanic such that it wouldn’t cost a lot, I would find a set of the new DLC lifters from Lycoming, split the case and install them.  It would be the best engine insurance you could buy at this stage.  That said, if the engine was new in 2019, there’s a small possibility that it received DLC lifters during the overhaul.  Be excited if you find that to be the case.  I’m not sure when they were introduced.  
 

The possibility also exists, that it could have received a roller cam engine.  Not likely, but most definitely worth researching.  Roller lifters would also virtually eliminate the chance of early engine overhaul.

[MBDiagMan]

Yes, if it hasn’t been run at all, whatever was used for assembly lube was almost certainly clean, so very little chance of any acid being present on the surface.

Edited June 25, 2023 by MBDiagMan

[LBM]

I sincerely hope you end up as happy with your M20E as I am with mine!

sounds like you got a great deal, and opportunity to spend lots of money making a dream airplane.

Enjoy!

 

[DPeterson3]

Are you in Nevada?  I've got a 64E that I've had for 44 years and 4 engines.  It's currently based in Carson City.  We're finishing up a bunch of stuff to bring it to South America.  My buddy also owns an "Aerostar" Mooney E model, but it hasn't flown in a long time.  Both he and I are IAs, but I don't live in NV anymore, and he seems to be in a funny state of working too much or refusing to work at all.

I'm sure both of us can lend support, and more, if you're in Northern Nevada.

That looks like a very good starting point.

[OneSaltyItalian]

9 minutes ago, DPeterson3 said:

Are you in Nevada?  I've got a 64E that I've had for 44 years and 4 engines.  It's currently based in Carson City.  We're finishing up a bunch of stuff to bring it to South America.  My buddy also owns an "Aerostar" Mooney E model, but it hasn't flown in a long time.  Both he and I are IAs, but I don't live in NV anymore, and he seems to be in a funny state of working too much or refusing to work at all.

I'm sure both of us can lend support, and more, if you're in Northern Nevada.

That looks like a very good starting point.

Are either one of you looking to sell (and subsequently keep it in the US )?  I'm in the market for an E.  DM me if you are.

[TheAv8r]

On 7/12/2023 at 5:15 PM, OneSaltyItalian said:

Are either one of you looking to sell (and subsequently keep it in the US )?  I'm in the market for an E.  DM me if you are.

There are a bunch of them for sale on Trade-A-Plane right now. 

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/filtered/search?s-type=aircraft&s-keyword-search=Mooney+M20E&s-original-search=Mooney M20E

This one caught my eye: https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20E+SUPER+21&listing_id=2419402&s-type=aircraft

Great, well-equipped panel, brand new engine that was a factory rebuild from Lycon, GAMIs, pre-heat... $130k is a pretty decent price for everything it has.

[OneSaltyItalian]

There are a bunch of them for sale on Trade-A-Plane right now. 
https://www.trade-a-plane.com/filtered/search?s-type=aircraft&s-keyword-search=Mooney+M20E&s-original-search=Mooney M20E
This one caught my eye: https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20E+SUPER+21&listing_id=2419402&s-type=aircraft
Great, well-equipped panel, brand new engine that was a factory rebuild from Lycon, GAMIs, pre-heat... $130k is a pretty decent price for everything it has.

Yeah, I've been looking. Those are way out of my price range unfortunately. Not too strapped over avionics being top of the line. Just want a good C or E with a mid to low time engine. The plane I fly for a living doesn't even have that nice of equipment in it, no need for my hobby to, lol.

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[TheAv8r]

3 minutes ago, OneSaltyItalian said:

Yeah, I've been looking. Those are way out of my price range unfortunately. Not too strapped over avionics being top of the line. Just want a good C or E with a mid to low time engine. The plane I fly for a living doesn't even have that nice of equipment in it, no need for my hobby to, lol.

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There's one up for $57.5k and another for $65k... multiple options at different price points. If neither of those are in your budget, I'd suggest an M20E is not in your budget . Right now, a good one is running around $80k. 

[M20F]

A Ranger is good when you are young and just want to mess around.  Maturity and wisdom though will bring you to an Executive.  Enjoy the ride. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

A Ranger is good when you are young and just want to mess around.  Maturity and wisdom though will bring you to an Executive.  Enjoy the ride. 

I must have been ahead of my time. I bought an Executive when I was 27. I needed a traveling machine for work. I flew it 475 hours the first year I owned it. And expensed off all of it.

[M20F]

32 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I must have been ahead of my time. I bought an Executive when I was 27. I needed a traveling machine for work. I flew it 475 hours the first year I owned it. And expensed off all of it.

You have always struck me as a caviar and champagne tycoon. 

[M20F]

27 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Ten inches and twelve gallons notwithstanding, the recurring perception that one model NA four cylinder Mooney is materially different from another in terms of capabilities and performance never ceases to amaze me.  

It’s a comical topic, not everything is about inches and performance.  Stop being such a Ranger. 

[KSMooniac]

Maybe @OneSaltyItalian will start a new thread with a proper introduction, but I can vouch for him as a real and serious shopper (hopefully buyer) for a solid C or E, or perhaps an F if it appeared and was in the right price range.  He and his wife are active duty USAF pilots that have already completed a trial-run of ownership with a vintage 172, and are ready for a great Mooney.  They have a hangar already, and are trying to do the responsible thing and purchase with cash (opposite of what I did 16 years ago!).  @Parker_Woodruff connected us a few weeks ago, and I've been advising/helping as I can with remote plane evaluations.  I can share that they already did a weekend driving trip to evaluate a nice E, only to have the seller change his mind about selling after taking them out for a flight!  

I suggested he spread the word with some Mooney shops and perhaps here, looking for the right plane before it hits the open market.  Perhaps a member here has been thinking about selling, but doesn't want to go through the hassle, or deal with a broker, etc.  Often the best planes change hands without gracing the bits of controller or trade-a-plane.

[nevadabandit]

On 6/25/2023 at 5:12 AM, MBDiagMan said:

To the OP:  What should your concerns be?  Valve lifters!  If the engine is new but hasn’t been run in four years, I would do lots of research on how common it is for lifters spalling after long periods of no operation.  If they corrode a tiny bit, the pits can start eroding, strewing metal throughout the engine wreaking havoc.  Been there, done that.

If you are a mechanic such that it wouldn’t cost a lot, I would find a set of the new DLC lifters from Lycoming, split the case and install them.  It would be the best engine insurance you could buy at this stage.  That said, if the engine was new in 2019, there’s a small possibility that it received DLC lifters during the overhaul.  Be excited if you find that to be the case.  I’m not sure when they were introduced.  
 

The possibility also exists, that it could have received a roller cam engine.  Not likely, but most definitely worth researching.  Roller lifters would also virtually eliminate the chance of early engine overhaul.

The rebuild invoice states the cam and lifters were reground, so that leave the roller possibility out.  I didn't know they reground cams and lifters?!!

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

You have always struck me as a caviar and champagne tycoon. 

I think you have me confused with one of those Acclaim owners. 

[M20F]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I think you have me confused with one of those Acclaim owners. 

Mooney quit making planes in 1977 with the J. What kind of name is a J. 

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, M20F said:

Mooney quit making planes in 1977 with the J. What kind of name is a J. 

If the F is called the Executive, the J should be called the Director!

[M20F]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

If the F is called the Executive, the J should be called the Director!

Managing Director

[MikeOH]

8 hours ago, OneSaltyItalian said:

Yeah, I've been looking. Those are way out of my price range unfortunately. Not too strapped over avionics being top of the line. Just want a good C or E with a mid to low time engine. The plane I fly for a living doesn't even have that nice of equipment in it, no need for my hobby to, lol.

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Not trying to come off the wrong way with this, but be careful with the 'mid to low time engine' as some kind of guarantee that you won't be faced with an overhaul.  Especially if the plane hasn't flown much recently.  You might be better off with a runout and then you control the quality of the OH.

I bought my F six year ago with an over TBO engine but priced accordingly. And, I was ready financially to spring for an engine at any time. 500 hours later it's still running great!

[MBDiagMan]

On 7/14/2023 at 8:37 PM, nevadabandit said:

The rebuild invoice states the cam and lifters were reground, so that leave the roller possibility out.  I didn't know they reground cams and lifters?!!

Yes, they regrind cams and lifters.  If you’re going to rebuild one though, changing to a roller lifter case is quite expensive.  The next best thing is to insist on Diamond Like Coating (DLC) lifters.  So far, since introduced, they have shown to be a solution to the problem.

[nevadabandit]

7 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Yes, they regrind cams and lifters.  If you’re going to rebuild one though, changing to a roller lifter case is quite expensive.  The next best thing is to insist on Diamond Like Coating (DLC) lifters.  So far, since introduced, they have shown to be a solution to the problem.

Thank You very much for the input!  Sounds like the perfect thing to do!

[nevadabandit]

As we move forward with this Mooney, we find missing pieces for the 201 windshield STC, the cowl deck and retainer. Lasar part numbers #310310-003 and #310315-001.   Lasar told us these two parts are not available at this time unfortunately.  But as you can see in the pictures, we have a piece that appears to be from the "Texas" STC.  Dont know if the folks rebuilding and modifying this plane messed up the Lasar pieces and found them not available, then turned to Texas to see if their piece would work with the Lasar conversion.

Anybody out there have any back ground or opinions that may help us?

Thanks a bunch!