ILS and flaps

[OR75]

In the ideal case when ATC gives you enough time to level off below the GS ... Reduce power / speed below gear down speed limit ... Put gear down at GS intercept.

Reduce power speed when getting close to DH

All runways with ILS will be long / wide enough for a no flap landing

I believe the FAA has minimum length / width requirements for a runway to be ILS eligible . I cannot remember what those are.

[midlifeflyer]

I believe the FAA has minimum length / width requirements for a runway to be ILS eligible . I cannot remember what those are.

 

The resulting theory is that there will always be enough room for a [Name your favorite piston] on a runway designed for jets.  Nice theory, and true to a point. But consider that a Jet coming in at 140 up to DA will land on the touchdown zone marker (my favorite was the time I was in a spot landing contest and a FedEx jet on a regular route decided he'd win)... I'm not that good but it's closer to that than to just avoiding running off the end of the runway.  

[OR75]

A prop at idle will be like a speed brake. Stay in the white arc 90 or less , and @ 200 ft , plenty of room to slow and touch in the touchdown zone

[Cris]

A stabilized approach is your primary consideration and flying by the numbers works best. Since the long bodies are heavier they are harder to slow on the decent. Initiate an approach level speed of 105 Kts. achieved 2 miles from the GS/FAF. At the GS intercept or the FAF you can simply drop the gear resulting in a 500'/min decent rate. Adding approach flaps decreases airspeed by about 7 Kts. and can be equalized by adding 1" of manifold pressure. I use approach flaps always but it can be done either way by the numbers and once the runway is in sight I use full flaps. If a go around is required it is easily handled but requires a strong hand on the yoke until the trim is removed. Each 1" of manifold pressure equals about 100'/min. An alternative approach is to drop the gear 2 miles from the GS intercept or FAF and adjust power for 105 Kts. At the GS intercept or FAF reduce power by 5" of manifold pressure which gives you the aforementioned 500'/min decent rate. Adding back the 5" will cause the AC to level for step descents. The 105 Kts works for most ILS or longer runways bearing in mind that one will land at 70-75 Kts. On shorter runways the approach speed will be 90 Kts. Specifics @105 Kts. are 2200 rpm, 18" mp, flaps up, gear down or 19" with approach flaps. @90 Kts. 13" MP or 14" with approach flaps. BTW Continentals "strong suggestion" for a minimum rpm of 2300 is applicable for cruise configuration only. Holds and approaches are specifically excluded from the restriction.

[BorealOne]

Had occasion this week to try a no-flaps to minimums in ice. CYPY is at the western end of Lake Athabasca, and gets its share of lake ice even when things are frozen.

My descent from 9000' took me through about 5000' of moderate ice. UnfortunAtely this was also the descent when my TKS system started to show signs of requiring some TLC. The windshield sprayer bar went weak, and then went out entirely, leaving me with just a 3" porthole above the defrost vent for the approach.

So...I set it up by the numbers as I was taught and as Cris describes above, keeping airspeed about 100 on the approach w/out flaps. The AWOS was calling ceilings at 1000' but with reduced fwd visibility, I didn't get the runway visual until around 600 AGL. I was expecting the go-round, but really didn't want to go back into the ice--fortunately it all came together in the end.

Even when things aren't going your way, setting up by the numbers is the key to a happy landing in a long-body.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hondo]

I like to drop the gear about a mile or so prior to the FAF and use 20" to maintain 90 kts. At the FAF fix, it's flaps 15 and 15"mp and this will maintain 90kts and stay on the GS ( the mp may be 14 or 16" depending on conditions.) I go to full flaps once the runway is in sight, or if it's really low, I just land with flaps 15. Lee

Lee,

My approach is very similar to yours, but a bit faster due to jet traffic at my home field.

As an ATP, do you have any concerns or recommendations for executing a missed approach with full flaps at high density altitude, say >8000?

[laytonl]

Hondo, living and flying in the Southeast, density altitude is not much of an issue for me.

I never go to full flaps until I see the runway. I'm a big believer in checklists and I use a checklist even on the miss to ensure everything is cleaned up. That said, my missed approach procedure is pitch up, power up, flaps up, gear up, cowl flaps open, then look at the checklist.

Lee

[phecksel]

Short Body

 

Final Approach Speed stabilized outside FAF

 

Gear down (slight pressure on yoke to avoid pitch up), if you're stabilized, you'll track GS perfectly all the way down with no other changes.

 

Break out above DH, takeoff flaps.  Breakout at DH, no flap landing.

[WardHolbrook]

Forget the flaps until you break out. Even at 200ft there's lots of time to get flaps out should you decide to land with them.

 

Not this guy. Breaking out at 200' with just 1/2 vis is not the time or the place to be screwing around with configuration changes in any airplane. Just land with whatever setting you used during the approach. There's seldom a need to put in the balance of the flaps if the approach was flown with less than full flaps. Now if you're shooting an approach to higher minimums, say 700+ ft and 1+ mile, then I see nothing wrong with your advice.   

[aaronk25]

Not this guy. Breaking out at 200' with just 1/2 vis is not the time or the place to be screwing around with configuration changes in any airplane. Just land with whatever setting you used during the approach. There's seldom a need to put in the balance of the flaps if the approach was flown with less than full flaps. Now if you're shooting an approach to higher minimums, say 700+ ft and 1+ mile, then I see nothing wrong with your advice.

...."should you decide to land with them" is the key I'm in your camp I just didn't want to re-kindle the flap no flap landing debate. If it were me I'd leave them where they were when runway is in sight.......

Aaron

[BigTex]

Any airport that allows you to land with 200' minimums is long enough that flaps should not be an issue.