Bob_Belville

[mention=14491]kpaul[/mention], my latest plan is to overfly Yellowstone east to west. I assume that will mean a headwind and I wonder if mountain a mountain wave is likely on the 60 nm crossing from KCOD to Yellowstone Lake?

What makes you say first pic was diving? At FL 110 on IFR fp. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Needs pics you say? Level at 11,000 and in descent just for fun.

6849 nm... I might have to trim this a little... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Don't tell @mooneygirl that 2400' is not long enough for a Mooney. She loves L52, Oceano CA, which is 2325'.

CloudAhoy tracks my flights. The last 7 flights recorded take off rolls: 1164', 1060, 1265, 1305, 1022, 1037, 1224. The 1265 and 1305 were at gross weight and high OAT to/from Longview TX. The Landings: 1298', 1812, 2430, 2492, 3206, 1529, 1881. All of the landing were on 5500' or longer runways so no special effort would have been made for short field performance. The 3206' was at 90 kias over the threshold, no flaps, in a 2 ship element during our Caravan formation clinic. The 2492' was at the end of a 5-1/2 hour flight terminating in a GPS approach with 400' ceiling so I was probably carrying extra speed and the plane was light. My point is our planes are very capable of operating inside even 2000' if the pilot is capable of arriving at the threshold at the proper height and speed.

Oh, you're dead on. But you should have quoted someone who flies a C at 165 ktas at 12,500'.

Spare us the insults, I don't think bonai's reference to "just under 150k true on 9 gph" is hyperbole. I routinely fly my 54 year old E at 140- 145 ktas on 8.0 gph (60%) and while I love the way it flies I don't think my plane as very fast - a J or K would be faster.

The CYA 100 AoA is a relatively inexpensive stand alone AoA. Installation is straight forward as is calibration. I've had mine about 5 years and am very happy with it. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/aoacya100.php

That's a great point Jerry. A pilot has to take into account the entire context. I'm planning a trip out west after KOSH and will be using airports at over 7000' which might be much higher than that DA. A 5000' runway might be marginal if the terrain is menacing.

You have a great resource in the 2 Mooney owners based on your field. Be sure to get their advice. Not all short fields are equal... are the approaches clear? Being able to drag it in with stabilized speed @ 1.2 Vso is easier than dropping in over trees. Likewise do you have to clear trees close to the end of the runway? Is there a slope that allows you to land uphill and depart downhill? There might be exceptions and performance charts should be compared but I suspect the C and especially the E will show at least as good short field performance as later models. Wing loading is lighter. My E has essentially the same wing and engine as a J but my max gross wt is 2575# whereas an older J is 2740# and later ones are 2900#. And long body Mooneys with much more HP also weigh a lot more carried on the same 3 tires so few long body owners like to go into grass strips. There are a few higher HP mid bodies that out perform but there are relatively rare and I suppose the Mooneys on your field are likely to be Js, perhaps Ks. And the pre J Mooneys do not have inner gear doors which ride lower to the ground and sometimes get bend on rougher fields. In my experience (3000 hours over 50 years in vintage Mooneys, probably 500 hours based at a grass strip) the Mooney gear is plenty rugged. The Cs and Es are pretty "short coupled" and taxiing should be done carefully to prevent a nose dip crossing a depression.

Operating out of a 2300' grass strip in a cross country machine will have cautions whether one is flying a C182 or M20. High density days, wet grass, full load... might make a mission a no go. Having said that, a vintage Mooney's performance will handle most circumstances. When these planes were designed grass strips under 3000' were more the rule than the exception. Now that we're off the relatively short grass strip, the Mooney should have a significant advantage over the C182 in operating costs due to the more efficient design that gets more speed at lower fuel cost. Maintenance will be similar and relatively less important that fuel. If at unplanned engine overhaul hits the Mooney's (I)O360 will cost less than the O470 or O540. Your budget should be adequate to get a nice Mooney. Make a list of must haves and would be nice improvements. You're interested in becoming and IFR pilot so ADS-B, WAAS GPS, autopilot. An EDM. Final caution, a Mooney is a super strong, well built plane. The airframe has no limit as to time in service. But you're looking at 50 year old examples. A thorough PPI by an A&P who knows Mooneys is just about essential. Undetected corrosion, leaking fuel tanks,... can get very expensive. Mooneys are much less ubiquitous than C182s and many of the ones you'll see advertised are potential money pits so a combination of patience and decisiveness is required. You'll kiss several pigs before the right plane comes along and when it does you'll have to be prepared to move fast. Vso for my '66E is 50 kcas.

Kick the front panel of the rear seat to see if you think it could be moved back 1". Better slip on your steel toed boots first.

This whole thread is confusing. There's a spar there! The F model moves the firewall forward 5" to get the rear seat legroom, the rear seat doesn't move. ICBWBIDTS

Ahmad, welcome to MS! Before Anthony - @carusoam chimes in, take a couple of minutes, click on your pic and fill in some profile info.

Boy, I would be skeptical that you could stay within the W&B rear limit of 49". What does yours look like with passengers in the rear seat? My rear seat arm is 70.7" so is yours 80.7"? I am planning my KOSH trip right now. (Love the Fly Garmin app.) 2 people in front seats totaling 345#. 23.4# of stuff in the rear seats - no passengers. Baggage, supplies and camping equipment totaling 93#, full fuel 385#. Gross is 2535 (vs. 2575 limit) and arm is 48.4" (vs. 49" limit). If I put a 170 person in the rear seat and remove 130# of fuel I would be at 2575 and 50".

That sounds great, you're going in right after KOSH? It will be August by the time we get to Denver.

Hi Brian, well... yes and no. the mountains (hills?) just west of my home drome (KMRN) have numerous peaks over 6500'. Airports just to the east are about 1000 msl - MRN is 1270. Climbing or descending in/out of MRN from/to Grandfather Mt. and his siblings involves getting up or down about 8000' in about 25 nm since it is likely to be IFR and min crossing alt is about 9000'. "Foothills" might imply higher peaks, "real mountains", nearby. That's not the case with the Appalachians so winds are affected in a manner similar to the high peaks out west. (The highest recorded wind speed, except for a recent cyclone in Australia, was on a mountain in the Appalachians, Mt. Washington NH, whose peak is only 6288'. 231 mph was the record in a winter storm many years ago but 100+ mph are pretty common.) By contrast out west I plan to land: CUT 5600', BZN 4500', IDA 4800', LWL 5800', BTF 4300'', LAR 7300', BJC'. Since I will be visiting all those fields VFR and will not need to go to more than ~12,000' the climbs will not be greater than the 8000' climb I have to do to cross our little hills. Turbulence and vertical drafts might be similar, very wind dependent. Now, engine performance will be more of a challenge in the west which is why I wanted to see how much climb I had left above 12,000. I certainly will heed the advice to fly early in the day and to stay grounded when winds across the ridges are too high. Fortunately, neither I nor Ben have to get home on any schedule and there's a lot of exploring we can do if we're grounded for a day or two.

Yeah, I'm another Easterner. On @kpaul's recommendation I plan a circuit over Yellowstone NP landmarks. That will need to be at about 12,000 to stay above the minimum 2000 AGL. I do have a lot of experience flying on the lee side of our highest in the East Appalachian Mountains where vertical drafts can exceed a Mooney's ability to climb. I'll be watching the winds carefully.

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I like it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Fred, I had my interior done locally using automotive materials - carpet, leather, headliner fabric. I went to the trouble and expense of having the materials tested - all passed easily. Log entry signed by my A&P: "Replaced interior fabrics (headliner, carpet, leather) with materials tested by Skandia Inc. under w/o # 249481 dated 12-10-2012 and certified 14 CFR Part 23.853 and 23-49 app F (e) and certified by FAA DER on 12-12-2012. Said documents attached. Work was performed by Dave's Trim and Robert Belville, owner." Your A&P may be willing to sign off on the installation w/o the certification. In a crash the flame spread characteristics of the carpet is not going to be high on the list of concerns.

Love to have more input from folks who fly NA planes in the West or know some of these layover towns and cities. Grandson Ben (17) will be right seat photographer and traveling companion. Day 1 Oshkosh to Custer County SD with stops in St. Paul MN and Fargo ND. ~ 5 hours flying. Day 2 visit Mt. Rushmore and environs then to Bozeman MT ~ 2-½ hours flying Day 3 to Salt Lake City UT with stops in Idaho Falls ID and Wells NV, ~ 3-½ hours flying Day 4 to Denver CO with stop in Laramie WY ~ 3 hours flying Day 5 to Kansas City KS with stop in York NE ~ 3-½ flying Day 6 to Stow MA with a stop in Sandusky OH ~ 7-½ hours flying - should be less with a prevailing tail wind. 6B6-S24-KMSN-KOSH-KSTP-KFAR-KCUT-KBZN-KIDA-KLWL-KSLC-KLAR-KBJC-KJYR-KMKC-S24-6B6

I'm 76 and have been wearing fancy hearing aids for a year. I'm missing higher frequency sound... e.g. wife's voice. I use and recommend David Clark ONE-X. Seals very well even with glasses. Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk