kortopates

There is really no such thing as a "rebuild" there is a 500 hr inspection which is an IRAN that if sent to a mag specialty repair station will include replacing all seals and virtually all moving parts and re-magnetizing the rotor, re-painting etc. Done in the field you'll generally get very little done because there is no specified list of replacement parts for the 500 hr IRAN; maybe just new points. So choose wisely who you use. The convenience of using your shop for the annual may not be the best option for your mags. The other option is an overhaul which isn't required till the engine is overhauled and then all parts listed by the manufacturer must be replaced. If you fly with pressurized mags take the 500 hr inspection very seriously; especially if you fly much IFR which the typical pressurized mag pilot does. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am always shocked by Mooney pilots that feel a larger pattern is justified with approx no more than standard rate banks in the turn. Keep the wing unloaded and your turn coordinated and you'll stay safe - yes it really is about angle of attack not air speed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I couldn't get to the article but I know a drone pilot who is also a Mooney pilot and I also know the second in command at Ft Huachuca which I understand is one of the military's largest drone training and testing base. He is also a Mooney pilot and may even weigh in here. Those of you who have attended a MAPA PPP in AZ the last few years know whom I am speaking of. For a civilian drone pilot you needed a commercial license since you were piloting for hire. But the interesting thing was how the Army trained enlisted men to do the job - putting them through a full FAA pilot ground school training. On the other hand, the AF didn't train new pilots but drew on current pilots - I heard mostly fighter pilots at the time. Makes you think the enlisted army pilots are much more motivated than the AF guys that would naturally prefer to be doing real flying. But of course this has been going on a long time now. And although it may seem Orwellian to some, the good thing about it is that the men and women that operate these oversees from home in the US get to go home to their families every night without really ever being in harms ways. I am not going to debate the philosophical side of that but I am all for reducing risk to our service men and woman; especially when a UAV can do the job. Also from what I recall, although the UAV's are highly automated, the UAV pilots take off and land them mostly by hand using cameras and standard instruments. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't ever recall experiencing a full flap takeoff - but really there is no need for it. Byron's flap failure on a go-around is really the only way this should happen. Maybe it's worthwhile to practice one once in awhile just to know how the plane will behave while we still have the means to raise them. But not at high density altitude - that really changes things drastically. Of course one could simulate this in the air first more safely too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These aren't a D-ATIS service, just METARS. You still have to pick up the official ATIS or One Minute Weather on the radio. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Personally, the smart thing IMO is to get a K&N filter. You never replace them, just clean and re-oil with their chemicals. They are superior to your paper element filters designed for racing. Mine is well over a dozen years old and still like new. They are STC'd for the Mooney too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's very simple really - a portable device is anything that does not require tools to mount. An permanently installed device is anything you need tools to remove or re-install and then must be approved. The definition of portable equipment versus installed (permanent) equipment has been around since far before the iPad and is not iPad specific. I don't know which RAM mount set up you have but I'd say if your SO can get it on and off without tools and without breaking a fingernail you are ok [emoji3] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My understanding of this is exactly the same as N1395W. As long as you keep it a portable installation which means no tools are required and it's not tied into the ships power then you are golden. But if you go with a mount that required tools to install then you'd better have the required approval and sign off. Ditto if it's is tapped into ships power. That's the only point where it becomes controversial as to whether it falls under a minor or major alteration but most will fall under a minor alteration requiring only a log book entry. I think the key point from this discussion is that you should make sure not to use an iPad mount that requires tools to install and thus will be considered an installed device requiring proper approvals. I am very happy with my "portable" mount installation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have the same issue. Although it's not so much the paint but the amount of cleaning it is likely to need after; especially into places that I can't easily clean. I have seen too many birds come out of there after being parked over a windy day and the grime goes everywhere! There are of course lucky ones that don't stay long and get out without the grime. But I would love a ride in some day though in someone else's bird! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I transition trained a recent PPL to the 231. It took quite awhile, much longer than it should have. Mainly because the guy was a very busy business owner. Most weeks we flew once, and occasionally twice or not at all. When he was ready to be signed off I felt he had likely done twice the hours he should have needed. But a significant reason for extra time was that he never learned cross wind landings in his private and he really learned them for the first time in the Mooney. I insisted on proficiency in them in part because his planned frequent destinations required it (desert south west). When he was done he was good at them and knew his aircraft systems and all his equipment as well as the emergency procedures - which is a giant leap from the simple C172. Find yourself a good Mooney specific instructor that knows turbo's in your area and work with him. Turbo knowledge is critical too so that the instructor can teach you how to properly manage the engine to improve longevity. My other suggestion is to take your time because your "needs" so to speak will change drastically as you advance and become more experienced. So your more experienced pilot partner will actually be a huge asset in helping to guide you. I am 252 owner. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You absolutely can put the 115 ft3 tank in. Your A&P or shop should have no problem figuring it out with your Models IPC to get the correct model tank. That will avoid otherwise unnecessary paper work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bravo! pun intended of course, very well done Dave!

I think you're wise enough to realize threads on this and most forums take on their own directions based on the most recent post(s). In reality, your just one element in the conversation among many. Keeping involved as you have been doing is probably the only way to get the information you seek. I think its a pretty civil and friendly too but I think any forum that allows people to be anonymous is not going to be as civil and respectful as one that requires identities. I am primarily basing that opinion though on the Bonanza group that I think is best behaved forum I am aware of. But I don't peruse that many - these are too time consuming! The operating cost question is way too general of a question for me to touch. Virtually no two pilot owners maintain and operate their aircraft in a similar manner. At the very expensive end is the operator that way use his plane to commute for business that needs to maximize his/her dispatch rate and minimize downtime for maintenance. Such a owner will also more likely acquire replacement parts as new or exchange and overnight them if need be. They are also more likely to tend to address squawks right away rather than allow them to accumulate. And they are less likely to have the time to participate in doing any of their own maintenance. The other extreme is the owner that maintains their birds entirely on condition, always trying to repair their parts before buying any part on exchange, and generally very involved in their planes maintenance often doing the full extent of allowed owner preventive maintenance. The the budgets between the two aren't even close to one another. To certain extent that even carries over into hangar, insurance and other fixed cost that would think are pretty standard but their not. But their are specifics you can focus on, like the typical inspection cost for a specific model in your area - but not annual cost cause then we're back to big variations.

Thanks for your vote of confidence Mitch. I wish those topics weren't taboo for me but of course that kind of information has to be left to company officials, the marketing dept and PR folks. I will add one more sentiment as to why my optimism is so much higher since coming to China these past 6 weeks. And understand 6 weeks is nothing - I am still a neophyte here with Mooney and only a pilot. But since coming here I have seen the bigger picture. Some time ago, perhaps shortly after Jerry took the helm of Mooney, he related that they had very well defined road map or plans for the next 5, 10, 15 years (or thereabouts) for the company's future. That's an understatement! The big disconnect I see in America is that we are all limited to the myopic view of the M20's - or more specifically Kerrville. But the reality is that the M20's are only the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger picture. The M20's are just one piece of a much larger plan with much greater commitment than I could have imagined till coming here; and that's why my enthusiasm and optimism have increased so much since arriving. Of course I am not the person that can get into specific's. But I can illustrate by referencing some public information. To begin with the commonly referred too "Chinese investors" is the Meijing Group. A quick five second read on the whom they are is here: http://www.bloomberg.com/Research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=247899467 The fascinating thing to me is that Meijing group is a huge China success story very much like Amazon or Facebook in the US; excepts its roots are in real estate development. I am using the internet comparison because that's more my background. Meijing is led by Veronica, the CEO (forgive me, but I can't even say, let alone spell her last name!, so I'll refer to her by her English first name.) Veronica is a China Dream success story come true and is very young and beautiful to boot. Although her company was founded on real estate development she has since diversified into other areas including aviation, health care management, wine industry and more. The best reference I am currently aware of that illustrates her sense of where she's going with Mooney and GA in China is this web page: http://www.mjgroup.cn/xinwenzhongxin/jituanxinwen/2015-01-15/1282.html (If you bring this up in a browser like Chrome its makes it very easy to use the google translate feature to make it somewhat readable,) The first picture is the hangar-factory of where I am based now at Soaring. The second picture includes Veronica in middle. (I have seen much better pictures of her and if you peruse the their website you'll see more of her elsewhere). The third picture is a new Acclaim, known as "Zhengzhou No. 1", that was a milestone of sorts to demonstrate how a new Mooney coming off the Kerrville's production line can then be partially disassembled for crating and shipment to China and then reassembled here at Soaring to become a Chinese certified and registered Mooney for sale. The point of this though, although not well depicted in the one article referenced, is that Veronica and her company's strategic focus is on the bigger picture of building their future GA market share in China rather than a US centric concern of the M20's competitiveness with Cirrus sales in the US. I suspect our beloved M20's are just one small part, although a vital part, of their future plans for GA in China. No doubt short term goals of getting the M10's and Ultra's certified and into production are critical too. But I really believe they have the long term view and resources to see this through and can survive the typical hiccups along the way. They also appear to be very savvy and the reality that Mitch alluded too about business being business is very real; meaning the only certainty is that they will continue to evolve their plans and goals to meet the needs of the perceived market place; and I am referring to the China marketplace where the potential is so much bigger than the US. I remain hopeful and optimistic that the M20's and Kerrville will continue to play a vital role in all this.

It happens a lot. The cheap Chicago cabinet locks used wear over the many years we have put them into service and then the vibration causes them to rotate down into the locked position. You're going to need new locks or it will continue to happen at a greater frequency. You can replace them with same cheap Chicago locks of you can go to a much better quality and more secure Medeco locks. If you really want to enhance security you can also re-key the ignition with a Medeco lock (as the factory currently does) in addition to the cabin door and baggage door. But I just did the two doors myself. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You bet I am. I am very lucky - I get to contract with two of my most favorite company's in Aviation: Mooney and Mike Busch's Savvy Maintenance! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Larry, Yes I'll be here through Sept 22. Who knows, but I might even come back out for some airshows. I am in the Kansas of China, literally the middle of the country in Zhengzhou, capital of Henan. It's a city of 12million, but I am located 30mi east of downtown in the suburb Shangjie with an airport that is known as the GA and Experimental Capital of China. A location shared by many other aviation businesses in China. But although my location is nearby some tourist destinations, including the Shaolin Temple (Birthplace of Kung Fu), my location is far removed from tourism, which makes me a Class B celebrity I think I am the first western seen by a great many of the locals. To make the point further, when I walk around it's very common for people to ask to take my picture, but in China that means a picture of us both together. I hardly mind since 90% of those brave enough to ask are young woman. So I'll usually ask for one with my phone and I have quite a collection already. Don't get me started on the airspace issues. It makes no sense and seems arbitrary and capricious. But when you need higher you'll get higher but in the south and east my limited understanding is yes, you'll be kept down to around 1000m for short hops. But for longer hops that go west and north you can get cleared into the O2 altitudes. The good news is that the government is reviewing these restrictions right now and I understand they have given assurances to lift them in s few years. But as I tried to allude to earlier, they need more than the support of the CAAC (Chinese FAA) they also need the support of the military which the CAAC has no authority over. Personally, I think the GA community here needs some lobbyist in Beijing to keep pushing the airspace issues further. One last point. To me the big China irony is that the roads are complete chaos with traffic, between cars, scooters, bikes etc with hardly anybody seemingly obey traffic lights. But not in the sky where it's far far more conservative or lacking in sharing the airspace with other traffic. Regarding infrastructure though. I am very impressed with airport facilities out here. They had the land and didn't mess around and built large airports with large runways and huge terminals to allow for lots of future growth. Radar surveillance is pretty thorough too but of course we have no satellite based weather so frankly it's hard to fly with out after so many years of flying with it. It's Almost like flying in Mexico and Central America. On ownership, my understanding is it is not yet possible for a private citizens to own an aircraft. Instead, aircraft are owned by businesses which include FBO and clubs that provide and maintain the aircraft and in some cases even pilots. But private ownership is probably not far off. But I agree with many of your points; especially that Chinese ownership will help a lot here. I am on Wechat when you make it over here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I must say I was also very impressed by George's graphics too - and how quickly he put them together since responses were flying back and forth at er - Mooney speeds! I was beginning to wonder if he was also a physics professor like my wife and Erik.

You don't say what kind of vacuum pump. I will say this though in an effort to be helpful, some of the vacuum pump manufacturers provide their own specific gasket for their pumps (e.g. Tempest. if that applies to your pump, make sure they are using the correct gasket and not the generic part number.

I think the more modern the aircraft the more accurate the POH data is. Mine is very close.

Although book values may have their marketing biases to some degree - so I can't disagree with you. However overall I think book values provide a more objective comparison compared to what I expect would be our more subjective reports. Where you aware that 252 POH book cruise speeds are ~10 kts faster than the 231 book speeds (for same power of course)? Perhaps a bit exaggerated but Mooney did a lot to reduce drag with the 252 cowl and airframe - one drawback though is that 252 only has one naca vent on the co-pilot side. i.e, I don't have your naca vent on the pilot side too because in theory it reduced drag. I wonder though. The cowling was a bigger real improvement though.

Not confusing - just a typo that I really thought I had corrected but will go back to correct again - yes I meant critical altitude for sure since I was referring to climb rate - not ceilings. Thanks!!

The 231, unmodified, is very limited with its incomplete turbo installation and why its critical altiutde is only around (IRC) 15300'. Contrast that with a real full turbo installation of the 252 with many other enhancements that raise the critical altitude to 23000'. Here is the 252 rate of climb chart. At 14000' the 310HP R/S model ROC has dropped to approx 525'/min while the 252 is doing 1000'! 252 Rate of Climb.pdf

I think this is spot on. I am midway into a short-term gig flying for Mooney Intl in China and I am super excited about Mooney's prospects here in China. GA is truly on the verge of an explosion here. There is a growing affluent middle class in China that is developing a pent up demand for GA. Not just to become pilots but also to leverage the potential utility of GA travel by hiring both plane and pilot for travel. But just looking at the growing pilot training interest here the only real competitors are new Cessna and Cirrus. China doesn't have an old 60's to 70's era GA fleet to draw on for training here; all GA training is being done with new imported aircraft, mostly Cessna and Cirrus. We all know the new Cessna and Cirrus trainers are very expensive. From my view, only the Cessna Turbo Skyhawk JT-A. and the Mooney M10T & J are positioned for success here because of their diesel engines. AVGAS is available but still rare here; giving a strong edge to those powered by Jet-A. Both Cessna and Mooney are using the same Continental CD Diesel engines. But just like in our beloved M20's series, the M10T & J should should provide much improved efficiency and economy with their modern sleek composite lighter airframes. The M10J retractable will use the same larger CD-155 used in the Cessna but have a 11" wider cabin and in theory cruise over 30 kts faster than the Cessna. The fixed gear M10T uses the smaller more fuel efficient CD-135. I am making these comparisons solely to make the point that here in China the bar is not as high as you might think to be a big success in the GA training market that will explode in a few more years. Currently there are no 2+1 modern trainer airframes available here. My sense of the Chinese culture here is that although safety is very important, speed and efficiency far out weights concerns for a parachute and the M10T and M20J really look to blow away the foreseeable training competitors here. In addition to the aircraft, Mooney is also able to provide Redbird Full Motion simulators for their M20's due to their teaming with Redbird. I am sure that will enhance their competitiveness here in the training market; which is not individual owners but flight schools that will operate at the fleet level. For the advanced pilots, the M20's will of course have to compere head on with the Cirrus here just like in America but personally I think Mooney still has a lot of time to work on improving its competitiveness if it really needs too. Its already getting lots of interest for being the fastest production aircraft. But I agree with Scott that improving useful load is more likely the bigger market factor. Still though success here in China is not just in the hands of the manufacturers. Unlike in America, it's seemingly much more complicated here by vast restricted airspace, government regulations and the military use of the airspace. I have been told that the government here is very committed to opening the airspace and claims they will within a few years (around ADS-B time in the US). A greater uncertainty though is the military's willingness to share the airspace with GA. Currently the government really has no control over the military, that is really going to have to come down from upper level government in Beijing. Air pollution is the other red herring that will challenge initial training that requires VFR conditions; especially to get away from the traffic pattern. So there are a lot of other complicating factors out of the control of airplane manufactures adding a lot of risk to the future GA timeline here. I suspect these issues will slow things down some but I really doubt they can stop the inevitable explosion of GA here. And for that I am really excited for Mooney - from my view they seem very well poised to be a winner.

I'd like a copy too if possible? But thanks for pointing this out as I was unaware but I imagine I could get one from Dan at LASAR too.