Jsavage3

Does my bird have a problem? I had my oil press relief valve spring & plunger replaced as well as tried adjusting (increasing pressure) the oil pressure itself...all with no change. I'm still seeing about 40 psi in cruise flight and well down into the yellow (estimate 10 psi) after landing and taxiing in with 800 to 1000 RPM. The oil pressure responds immediately to an increase in power with the throttle. Side note...the oil was changed and the filter was clean. Now what? Any ideas? Live with it as in that's normal for a 252? Informational...1175 TSN, 375 SMOH and no engine monitor so my indications for from a peanut gauge... I'm thinking check the gauge for accuracy. Thoughts? Install an engine monitor...I know, it's on my list... Your input is appreciated. Edit...I run Phillips 20W50 with Camguard and I keep my oil quantity between 6 & 7 quarts with my POH telling me 5 quarts min for flight...

+1 for LASAR...recently bought one for my 252...perfect fit and was pre-drilled. Simply unscrew the old one and attach the new one...perfect fit and it looks great! Paid about $120 or so...

DonMuncy, Would you mind sharing this technique...I'm about to replace my spring. Thank you, Jsavage3

Well, I bit the bullet...sold my J and bought a 252. It's a low-time 87' model with good history and avionics... So far, very pleased. Some things I like: built-in O2 (no more O2 bottle hanging off the front pax seat), easier engine management (lean off of TIT) i.e. no need to find which cylinder peaked first or last, substantially faster (154 KIAS versus 139 KIAS which is what I always saw in my J), wing-mounted fuel gauges, ability to go up and gain about 2 knots true per thousand feet...otherwise, it feels like a J. Looking under the cowl is a bit scary at first...there's alot going on in there. Hopefully time, exposure and experience will tame that particular beast... As a result of the discussion found below that I caused, I'll expound... Yes, my J always indicated 139 KIAS for about 157-159 KTAS at 25-50 ROP burning 10 GPH. On my "take her home" flight, my 252 indicated 154 KIAS for 166 KTAS at 6,000 feet MSL and 50 ROP TIT burning 13.3 GPH (I stayed low due to 40-knot headwinds that grew stronger with altitude).

Have there been any updates to the information relating to the use of Camguard in a TSIO-360? Right now, I'm planning to run X/C 20W50 plus Camguard in my 252...

Appears to me that we all need to go into the hangar building business! I pay substantially less than $2,000 per year for my T-hangar, but I don't live in the DC suburbs either. I guess that's how I'll justify the extra expense of my 252 maintenance costs...

It seems to me that most K-to-J comparisons evolve around 231 numbers compared to 201 numbers. Based on what I've heard & read, I think the 252 is going to be 10 knots faster than the 231 at any given altitude & power combo. I believe a 252 at 12K is going to see a distinct advantage over a 201 at 12K...especially considering the 201 can't produce 75% power at that altitude. The 252's ability to happily climb to 18K+ to find smooth/clear air, tailwinds, etc is what finally made my decision for me. My J was quite content at 8000-9000 feet, but anything above 10,000 feet, the MP was getting down into the teens and my ability to climb was quickly becoming a wrestling match...my last climb from 10,000-12,000 feet for ATC while near CLT proved that to me yet again. Having owned my 201 for 5 years, recently sold it and now being in contract to buy a 252, I anticipate being able to share some actual numbers very soon. I fully anticipate being very happy with my change so as to meet my mission. Will report back soon... BTW, the J is a fine ship and I don't look at this switch to turbo as an upgrade...simply an upgrade in operational capabilities...

Is N252MB still for-sale?

I've decided to get a turbo and any information regarding the differences between a stock 252 and the 261 Thunderbird Turbo Conversion by the Mod Squad would be most welcome. Any differences in useful load? Performance? Anticipated maintenance? Parts availability? Same turbo or waste-gate? Ease of operation? Age seems to always be a player...i.e. a modified 231 from the early 1980s versus a 1986-1989 252. Any information from a previous or current owner would be much appreciated. Thank you and Happy New Year!

Jclemens, first of all, your 231 is beautiful from every angle. But, I'm curious. You're the first person I've ever heard to asert that the mod'd 231 is actually faster than the 252. I get the W&B advantage, but the speed. Do you have any factual data to support your claim? Any current 231 or 252 drivers able to comment? Note, the results of this thread may cause me to leave the 252 camp in favor of a mod'd 231...

If you're still not happy with it, you might want to have your prop balanced. I did with great results!

M20S Driver, the PDF would have been perfect, but it won't open. Any other ideas? AMillet, I sent you a PM and thank you! All other offers to help, I send you each a sincere thank you!

I am trying to acquire a copy of the MAPA Mooney Manual. It contains some really good Mooney reading! Previously, I had downloaded a copy of it from the internet, but that resource is no longer available apparently...at least all of my online searches have come up empty handed. I've not yet had the pleasure of attending a MAPA pilot proficiency course, so I haven't been able to acquire a MAPA Mooney Manual yet myself. Might anyone have a copy that they would consider sharing or selling?

Sure would be nice if a shop decided it was worthwhile to offer a turbo option to current E, F and J owners again...see http://m20turbos.hypermart.net/ IMO, there would be a market for it... So it might cost $30K plus installation into the one you know and love or buy a K/M model. Just from a tax standpoint, there is something to be said for keeping the one you know...selling yours and buying another airplane is costly when you consider everything that should go into a sale -- PPI, taxes, traveling to look, paint/interior/panel upgrades to "make it yours", financing, etc... Let alone the actual purchase costs for the "new" airplane. I would certainly consider the option of giving my J more air. P.S. I believe these two charts are comparing a NA J and a turbo J...not a turbo K. These charts were acquired from the M20Turbos website, which when they were operational, their specialty was putting a turbo on E, F & J models. I believe this is why the ROC shown for the turbo is higher than what most K Drivers see...the J being a lighter weight airplane, the effect of the turbo will be more noticeable. This is just my opinion though.

Regarding the 252's mx costs, can any owner's report that they took their engine to TBO without replacing any cylinders? Typically, I'm a 65% power & 50 ROP kinda guy when it comes to running my J's engine and it's very efficient (about 9.5 GPH) and reasonably fast (157 to 161 KTAS) at those settings. If one were to always run their 252 at 65% power (about 24" MP and 2500 RPM) and 50 rich of TIT in the low to mid teens, how likely or unlikely would it be for their engine to not require any new cylinders prior to TBO? How about the turbocharger? Is there a TBO for that? I'm still looking...

My sons, 7 yrs/60# and 9 yrs/75#, are growing fast. My wife & I have discussed the idea of getting "something more comfortable." Having a nice J in the hangar that's paid for is hard to give up, especially when the new ride will gain nothing over my J except more payload...maybe. At nearly 1000# payload capable, the J is magic. It's exactly what my bride & I will want when we're empty-nesters. So, rather than find a temp fix band-aid along the lines of buying someone else's problems, we've decided to stay with what we know and love. We find the J very comfortable, capable and efficient...the true sweet spot of GA. It goes without saying that staying fit & trim (healthy), mods to increase payload, reduced fuel and fewer bags will be our reality for the next few years, but the boys will be grown and gone before we know it. There are alot of hidden costs associated with giving up one airplane for another and every airplane is a series of compromises. There is no one airplane that will fully meet any pilot's needs for his/hers lifetime. One fix is to buy a different airplane every few years (very costly IMHO) and I think many folks follow this path. Another possible plan is to buy an airplane that covers the bases best for you and your given mission...then stick with it and avoid the temptation to eyeball that "greener grass" across the fence. This is the plan we've chosen and we feel the J is the bird for us, although, in our case, an F or a J would work nicely for us.

Well, I went with Safe Skies in Middletown, OH (MWO) with Kurt Yearout...and with outstanding results! His base price was a little over $1400 for the inspection. Based on things they found and things I wanted tweaked, it ended up being nearly four times that, but my Mooney is in better shape than she has been in years! They gave my bird the inspection I desired for the airplane I fly my family in. Top notch, thorough and easy to work with would be the adjectives I'd choose to describe my experience with Safe Skies. I will certainly go back and I'd recommend them to anyone that asked.

A sticky valve update...and important follow-up information that I was just made privy too... So, it's been 85 flight hours since my first bout with the sticky valve and everything ran along just perfectly since then until about two weeks ago when I had those same indications again one cold morning...shucks! Now what? Well, it was approaching annual time, so I informed my shop of my sticky valve history from 85 hours ago and the current indications and asked for advice. They contacted their engine guy who immediately thought it was an exhaust valve guide diameter issue as he has seen this before (as have I, said I). The engine guy found cylinder 1 had a sticky exhaust valve and this, he said, was the source of my latest sticky valve indications. He reamed it IAW the Lycoming SB. Cylinder 2 was the one that gave me issues 85 hours ago and it was of the proper size as he checked that one too. In addition, he checked cylinders 3 & 4. So, although I have not been able to run it yet (as it's in the middle of its annual), the engine guy says with confidence that my problems are now fixed. Sigh of relief from me! If you're having sticky valve indications, I would like to suggest that you have your valve guide dimensions checked and ensure they are of the proper size for your specific engine.

First of all, congrats on the addition to the family! Kids in a J-model Mooney? Absolutely, but that does depend on the size of the adults... Leaving the dogs at home (kennel) is likely going to decrease your frustration level. Dirty diapers in flight? You probably won't even know it's a dirty one until you land. My wife & I have flown countless hours with our two sons and have yet to ever change a diaper in flight...with the boys in the car seats in the back, we're typically unaware of a bad diaper until we land and start deplaning. Yes, we have used the horizontal stab as a diaper changing table. The most difficult and frustrating task for me was getting the boys into their car seats & buckled in prior to flight...at 7 & 8 years old now, they no longer ride in car seats and they can buckle up themselves now which makes my life much easier (something for you to look forward too!). Kmyfm20s had a great idea above with "buy a designated baby seat for the plane and save yourself the frustration of taking it in and out all the time." He had another idea that I thought was a great one for any Mooney families with only one child..."With the baby behind the pilot seat and the passenger seat slid all the way back your wife will have good access to the kiddo, worked well for us." If you end up with more than 2 kids, the Mooney probably won't fit the bill anymore unless you can get away with buying a camper... My wife & I weigh 310-lbs together...I weigh 175 and she weighs xxx... ...I learned that lesson many years ago...our sons now weigh 130 lbs together (and growing fast). With our J, we can take full fuel, 100-lbs baggage, the four of us and takeoff at 2740-lbs, which is max gross takeoff weight. As the boys grow, I intend to use a combination of less baggage and reduced fuel load to maintain the W&B requirements for the J. With the family on board, I typically plan on 3-hour flights with 4-hours being the maximum allowed for "comfort & keep-them-smiling" considerations...so the reduced fuel plan for the future will have little impact on our J operations. Loading and unloading is the most "troublesome" issue I have to deal with and, thanks to the MAPA Mooney Manual", I've adopted their loading technique of I climb in first, followed by the boys in the back and finally my wife climbs into the right front seat...we reverse this operation for deplaning. Once we're in, we find it very comfortable with great airflow in summer and plenty of heat in the winter. Combine that with oxygen available for those above-9,000-foot flights (no headaches), an altitude-hold auto-pilot and I-pod music = we glide along happy as could be at 160 KTAS and < 10 GPH. At 180 mph and 20 sm/gal, life just doesn't get any better than that. If you can make four seats work, the efficiency of the Mooney just can't be beat. I have two children from a previous marriage who live with my ex-wife...they live nearby and we see them all the time. My wife & I spent many hours a couple of years ago discussing the possibilities of selling our J for a 6-seater...likely a Cherokee 6 or Lance/Saratoga type. After much deliberation, we elected to keep the J and buy a camper for our "once-a-year" trip that includes all 6 of us. We felt that once-a-year trip just didn't justify the purchase & operating expenses involved...and I knew I'd always be grumpy with the cost-per-mile...especially when I had empty seats which would be most of the time. We've been very happy with our decision! Another plug for our Mooney -- just yesterday, I delivered our J to the mechanic's shop (75nm away) for it's annual. It was arranged that they would fly me back in their Continental IO-470 powered Debonair...beautiful airplane! Alas, I did not like it and just fell all the deeper in love with our J. In cruise flight and 14 GPH, the KIAS were less than I see in our J at 9 GPH...you knew I was going to say that, right? I sat in the right front seat. Climbing in & out was slightly easier than the J, but the sitting comfort left me disappointed. Sitting straight up and with my right shoulder brushing the door, my headphone's right ear cup was nearly touching the window...it may have had one inch of clearance. It was so close that I was worried about my headphones scratching the plexi-glass window...I actually turned and looked at it closely expecting to see scratches and was hoping they weren't from me! In-flight visibility may have been slightly better than our J, but not enough to get excited about. So, there's my plug for family fun and a J.

After many years of flying other's airplanes, my wife supported my desires for a STOL 4-seater...we bought a Maule M5-235C. Had it for about 3 years...put 31" tundra tires and an over-sized prop on it (made it v-e-r-y fun!)...and then around 2009, the price of 100LL was smarting a bit. My buddy had a J and wouldn't be quiet about it, so I got curious. Yes, sold the Maule (still miss it though) and found a nice J that needed a new home. Although I have looked a bit longingly at the 252/Encore from time to time, I must admit we've been very pleased with our J and I always smile when I discuss the J's efficiency. Doesn't she stand there all proud like? Yes, I love my J, but I miss my Maule. We also have a Rans S-12 that we keep in a hangar out behind the house... I use it for scratching my daily itch, well, when it's above 45 degrees or so! There's nothing like finishing a hot day of mowing and hopping into the S-12 for a 20-minute sunset cool down before Miller time...

I had a good flight a couple days ago to Charleston, SC -- took my family down there to tour an aircraft carrier, a destroyer & a submarine at Patriot's Point...that was a BIG hit with my two young sons! Based on what they keep asking to watch on tv, my wife & I figured out that they've recently developed an interest in naval vessels... At 9,000', I had a solid 161 KTAS with WOT 22"MP (ram-air open), 2500 RPM, 25 ROP and 9.4 GPH. Had a nice tailwind to boot, so it was a pleasantly quick trip down...had a bit of a headwind coming back though, so that added about 30 minutes to the return trip.

Has anyone here had any Mooney maintenance dealings with Ohio Valley Flight Services in Wheeling, WV? I am considering them for the annual on my J and would surely appreciate any feedback on this MSC. Thank you!

Assuming you mean KTAS, then I'm thinking your 252 is getting about 19.5 to 20 sm per gallon. Very impressive; the epitome of efficiency for a 4-seat airplane!