jlunseth

PS I generally climb at 500 fpm and full power. You can probably climb at 1,000 fpm or even more at full power but it comes at the cost of slower airspeed which translates to less airflow over the engine and less cooling. I use 500 fpm because it is easy on passenger ears and I fly a lot of medically compromised (Angel Flight) passengers. 700 fpm works pretty well. Over that, and especially during the summer, and you will see a long persistent climb in all temps.

A lot has been learned about good engine operation since the POH was written. Generally, the healthiest way to run a turbo is to climb full power full rich to whatever altitude you are going to cruise at. I use 36” for that. Full power at ground level is actually around 37” for the intercooled LB but 36 works fine. For climb operations you need a rich mixture. The POH says you need to see a fuel flow of 22.5-24 GPH. You won’t get that if you climb at reduced power. There appears to be a sharp bump up in the fuel flow at 36-37. You should also have the prop full forward in the climb and the RPMs should be 2700 or pretty close. If they are less then you are operating at reduced power and won’t get the fuel flow you need. If you try to climb at say 34 you will only see maybe 19 GPH. If you don’t see 22.5-24 at 37 you need to take the aircraft back to your mechanic to get the fuel flow set higher. Leaning during the climb is for normally aspirated aircraft and the reason it is done in NAs is because their MP is capped at ambient and it falls as they climb so the mixture becomes too rich. That is not at all true in the turbo which can make full power all the way up to the critical altitude, which is around 22,000 in the LB with a Merlin. We have had lots of threads about operating that engine Lean of Peak at cruise. It seems that question comes up about every week. You might do a search and find a couple of recent ones. As a general rule 2500 is about right for rpms at cruise, I use 2450. If you are going to operate rich of peak then you need to be well rich of peak. I use 31”, 2450 rpms and at least 13.3 GPH. If there are cylinders that are too hot, as on a hot day out west, then increase the fuel flow to as much as 14.5 GPH. I typically operate lean of peak at 34” MP, 2450 rpms and 11.1 GPH. I watch the TIT and if it goes over 1600 I will reduce power a little by reducing fuel flow to say 10.8. I can only operate this way up to around 12-16k depending on day temps, higher than that and temps are just too hot. I must operate rich of peak. In general stay away from any power setting where the fuel flow is in the 12’s. That is right around peak and gives you the worst and highest CHT’s. A setting in the 12s is ok if you are flying at a reduced power setting, maybe 27 to 28” but is not ok for any cruise setting above that and definitely not ok for full power ops. Generally you should strive to keep CHT’s around 380, if they are going over 400 then you need to do something different.

Yeah the POH gives you a max cht of 460 for the LB. Those cylinders are then good for at least a couple of flights, maybe three or four.

Before anyone can help you we need to know which K, which engine, and the configuration of the engine. There are three different K’s, the 231, 252, and the Encore, and two custom K’s by STC, the 261 and 262. The 231 can have two different engines, the TSIO360 GB and the LB. EIther one can be fitted with common aftermarket modifications or not, a Merlyn wastegate controller and/or an intercooler. The 252 has a TSIO 360 MB and sometimes by modification an SB. The Encore has the SB. Tell us what you have and someone here can help. If you don’t know what you have then you need to find out what you have because each version has its own operating parameters and they are quite different from one to another. As a general rule you should climb any turbocharged engine at full power full rich. You should not ever lean a turbocharged engine back to some other setting than full rich while in a climb, you will cause high temps. A turbocharged engine is not the same as a normally aspirated engine and pretty much everything you know about operating a normally aspirated engine, such as leaning in climb, is not right for the turbo’d engine and can result in some remarkable CHTs and OT.

Oz- Thank you. So the problem apparently was that two 275s were installed but they were not installed in reversionary mode so the HSI could not act as a backup ADI and the pilot was not aware of that. I believe there is a way to “fail” the ADI to see if reversionary mode is working, I am going to test that in my installation next chance. Mine is supposed to be the reversionary installation and my avionics shop is really good, but “trust but verify” applies. The Report sort of implies that a reversionary switch needs to be installed for a reversionary installation. It does not. The HSI can simply be switched to ADI mode by using the controls on the unit. Having read that report I applaud the occurrence pilot’s ability to get out of the situation, if it happens to me ever I hope I am that good. There is some chiding in the report about needing to stay current with partial panel skills. That is a good idea in general but the fact that the outcome is not smooth is not the result of rusty skills. Partial panel in IMC especially turbulent is not an ideal situation under the best of circumstances. There are some notes in the report to the effect that the 275 takes a little getting used to. I can attest to that, there is a need to practice to make sure the pilot does not misread what the instrument is saying simply because of lack of familiarity. Also, in my installation the GTN750 causes the 275 to switch to various headings during an approach and it is going to require flying a bunch to make sure I understand exactly what it is going to do. So far it appears to be seamless where GPS and ILS approaches are concerned, but not so much for VOR approaches. All that said, I am keeping my vac AI.

We have had two posters on this site tell us about major failures in all-electronic systems. Don Kaye put up a thread just a few weeks ago where he experienced some kind of arcing and failure of everything on the buss. A couple of years ago someone posted that their dual-275 installation (where the HSI is supposed to act as redundancy for the ADI should the ADI fail) had entirely failed. Garmin was involved in figuring out what happened. There was some discussion that it might have been an installation error of some kind, but then as the pilot flying what difference does it make what the cause of the failure is. Some of us (me included) have concerns about the duration of the backup batteries incorporated in devices, the 275s I just had installed both have supposed 1 hr. backup batteries but the AFMS says that can drop as low as 30 min. in cold temps. The moral of the story is that you are building a system, and "redundancy" that depends on a single technology, for example electrical power, still gives you a single point of failure, which you definitely do not want if you fly IMC. I have lots of electronics, two GPS/radios, two 275s, transponder, etc. but I have kept a vacuum backup AI on my panel.

Well, to me the gain in airspeed with altitude is largely academic because whether you should be going higher to gain TAS is a function of which direction you are going and what the winds aloft are. The winds aloft have a magic way of losing at least as much and usually more GS than the gain in TAS if you are flying westerly, especially in the cold weather months. It’s like sailing, you take what the wind gives you. Cruising at 175 TAS is not so nifty if the headwind is 50 = 125 GS, and you could have made 132 if you had just not done the climb and stayed lower. That said, the joy rides with that 50 (or more) at your back are really nice.

I vote with Shad. I haven’t had industrial grade experience, but I have plenty of concrete patio and I clean it every spring with a pressure washer. It does a pretty good job and I have even cleaned some diesel fuel spills on old asphalt with it, although that never comes 100% clean. Mine is a cold water pressure washer, there are hot water washers that would probably do an even better job. Probably you can rent one locally. I would put a degreaser on it like Simple Green, let that work, and then pressure wash it with a hot water washer. We use muriatic acid on fiberglass to clean stubborn stains on our sailboat and it does a spectacular job with even fuel stains, but I would be reluctant to do that on concrete because of the chemistry (acid against lime).

I just had them installed. The first thing I need to do is figure out how everything works. The problem with checking them though, is that batteries are never as good after say 5 years, as the day they were born. There is a requirement in the AFMS to test every 392 days and the procedure is described for the test, that probably helps. I just decided I am not ready to risk my life on the backup batteries in the 275s. I am keeping my vac AI backup just because I then don’t have a single point of failure. I ditched the old King Flight Director/AI and bought an inexpensive vac AI without the director. When the 275s first came out we had a poster on this site who had both 275s go to “red x” mode, something about the system that the two form that failed. Never heard what they figured out with that. Garmin became involved I believe. Could have been an install error, but then who here with more than a few hours has not had an install error cause some kind of problem. That’s why we have redundant systems.

Yes, the temp at the unit would be an unknown variable. In my aircraft the temps forward of the heat vents are generally quite a bit colder than aft. That would affect temps behind the panel. Probably there would be some amount of heat generated by the devices behind the panel but how much. So the questions is, how cold is it and how long will that battery last? If its cold, the duration is between 30 min and 1 hr., I don't think there is clear information out there about exactly what that duration would be given "x" conditions or how one would measure the conditions.

For those relying on the backup batteries in Garmin devices, I just put in the dual 275 setup and was a little concerned when the documentation said that in cold temps, the 1 hr. backup time can fall to 30 mins. In the upper Midwest I have been in temps so cold at altitude that all the windows iced over even with the heater full on. We were really cold in the cabin. Fortunately we were also going like the proverbial bat out of hell because of the tailwinds so it was not that long. One hour is not enough as far as I am concerned, because on occasion I fly places, like over the Rockies, where it would take that long at least to find a place to land and fly an approach, but 30 minutes is not enough even in flatland locations. I opted to keep the vac pump and run a backup vac AI. I am going to stick with that and have abandoned plans to go all electronic. I also have had a vac failure in VMC. Mine slowly pitched up as it fell and I gain altitude foolishly trying to follow it since it seemed to be working. Figure it out and got out of the problem.

Well, almost the same article. Back then George Jetson was flying the plane. George had to retire at age 65.

They prepare the application for around 5k, but once the app is submitted there is no telling how much work will be involved in getting the patent through the USPTO. it is not common for an application to simply be allowed on the first try. The 20k number is about right. Had a friend with the pilot relief tube in a Malibu. He was told not to use it because of corrosion on the downstream control surfaces. Before I bought my Mooney I bought one of the Sporty’s bottles. I brought it home and told the kids, “I don’t have the airplane yet, but I have the restroom.” But I subsequently went through two or three before I found one that seals. One of them had a pinhole in the bottom, one the cap would not seal and it had to sit upright or else. Gotta get one that won’t hurt the aircraft.

A little off the subject, but I am putting a new Conti in my plane this winter. I wanted a factory reman, but it turned out the difference in price was not very much between reman and new, much less than it was a few years ago. Difference was about 8 AMUs as I recall, maybe less. New means everything is new including the accessory systems. The existing engine is 20 years old. I couldn’t see doing a field OH on an engine that old and having the plane down for maybe 6 months for it to happen. I like to actually fly on occasion.

Man, that hurts. Sorry Don. I have been going more and more electric/electronic as well, but I have reached the point where I think I should stop for just the reason you discovered. My aircraft has a single point of failure in the alternator, and I have experienced the joy of having it fail in the air (not in IMC) and having to fly with the Master off. Absolutely everything in the panel is dark, including the engine monitor, except maybe analog altitude and airspeed. I have been thinking about removing the vacuum pump, which currently just drives a backup AI. I would add a backup alternator on the accessory pad in place of the vacuum pump. But the problem that would leave me with is exactly what you experienced, a failure of the electrical system would take out everything. I have lost a GPS that burned out one day when the second comm had been removed temporarily for repairs. Got to fly back into my Class D home airport during an air show and land with light signals with everyone on the ground and watching. I have lost the alternator as I said. There is a message in there somewhere. When we put all those electronics together one by one we are still building a system and the system itself may be the problem. I think I just decided to stick with the vacuum pump backup AI and be happy I have it.

It is determined by the regional organization you fly for. At AFC, up until last year, each pilot had his/her own AF Flight number, e.g. NGF1234. However, you are correct that using a specific flight number required the pilot to put that tail number into his/her transponder so the transponder was squawking the same flight number that was in the flight plan (NGF1234). Some forgot. The FAA got on the regional organizations about it, and rather than risk a formal enforcement of some kind AFC switched back to the old system were we use our normal tail number, but with “Angel Flight” ahead of it rather than “Mooney.” So I am “Angel Flight 381 Sierra Papa” when I contact clearance, ground, tower, and en route. We put “Angel Flight passengers on board” in the remarks, so ATC knows. ATC is virtually always good to us. For example, on one occasion they put an incoming aircraft in an instrument hold before their approach so we did not have to wait for them to fly a whole approach before we could takeoff. I skedaddled out of there and the patient made her chemo appointment.

An old Mooney gets its picture in the news: https://www.flyingmag.com/naa-and-aca-to-honor-pilots-and-aviation-volunteers-for-helping-those-in-need/

Well, I was interviewed by FLYING Magazine about an hour ago concerning the NAA Award. They wanted to know the useful load, and I gave them the fuel flow for my lowly 231. I guess there will be an article on the website shortly with my very old face and a venerable old Mooney, still in service. They wanted to know how I got the wheelchair in the aircraft.

I also give only directly and to the charitable organizations that I choose, so I know where my money goes and how it is spent. It is worth saying that when an AF Pilot requests a flight, he/she knows very little about the patient. We know their first name, age, sex, usually their disease or condition, and the date and route of the flight. We know their weight for W&B, which probably their mom does not even know any longer. We do not know, nor do we care, what color, race, ethnicity, nationality, or religion the patient is, or whether they worked in the Obama administration or are the Republican Party chairwoman of a county in West Virginia (I have carried one of each). The organization does a very good job of vetting for medical and financial need, so what we know about the patient that matters to us is that they need help, they have asked, and we can give it.

The regs do not allow the organization to reimburse the pilot. The pilot donates everything about the flight including the aircraft and him/herself. At one time it was possible for the organization to obtain a waiver letter and reimburse pilots. There are multiple regional Angel Flight organizations, allied under the umbrella of the Air Charity Alliance. I read a waiver letter for, I believe, Angel Flight East at one time. However, the organizations are generally small with a very small staff and budget. I do not know if Angel Flight East still reimburses, I doubt it. I don’t think any of the rest of the organizations do and I know that the one I belong to, Angel Flight Central, has nowhere near the budget that would require. If one of our posters would donate, say, $20 or 30 million to AFC, I will personally come pick it up for them and perhaps reimb could be done for awhile. I am sure many of us give to charitable organizations knowing that every year, say, 30 or 40% of what we donate goes to pay the salaries of the people who will come back next year and ask us to donate again, not that that is bad by any stretch, they are wonderful organizations. But at Angel Flight the pilot’s entire gift goes to the person sitting in the right seat, and better than that, the pilot has the opportunity to help someone first hand. At AFC, for every dollar of salary and operating costs, $4.73 is contributed by pilots on flights. My last flight, I picked up a fellow at Rochester, where the Mayo is, a cancer patient. When I sat down next to him at the FBO he looked a little down, so I asked him how he was feeling? His lips quivered a little and he said “Fighting for my life.” My response was, “Well, I am here to help, I am going to see to it that you get home.” So we went to Omaha. That about sums up what it is an Angel Flight Command Pilot does. In the Midwest where I fly not many of the flights end in Bs or Cs. Maybe more do out on the east coast. I have never landed at a Bravo for Angel Flight, this year I had two out of some 23 flights terminate at Charlies and one of those was a diversion because of a gear up on the runway at the intended airport. It is true that many of the FBOs do not charge ground fees to AF pilots, and many also give fuel discounts. Signature is principal among them and very generous, there are a small number of Signatures that do not give a fuel discount but the vast majority do, it is company policy.

I have to say, this one hit home for me. FCM, where the pilot was going, is my home base and the folks at Thunderbird Aviation, my home FBO, had spoken to him several times that week. He was on an approach I have flown several times, including just the week after the incident, that was frankly a little spooky. It is not an unusual or difficult approach, flat country to the west of FCM, tower is very good and always helpful. Very hard to understand how disorientation would have had the result it did in the very short period of time it did. Sorry for the family.

Scott, I have belonged to AFC for more than ten years but there were several years in there where I did not have the time to fly even the required one flight a year to stay current with them. It was never a problem, I was always welcomed back, just had to walk through the preliminary course they provide. It’s now a webinar or video and I believe you can get Wings credit. Get ahold of your organization and go back whenever you can. Tmo - start one up, or perhaps Angel Flight Central here could coach someone there on what needs to be done. There needs to be a small professional staff that handles the flight requests and administrative work. They post the available flight to an Internet board, pilots can log on and request a flight. Once approved, the pilot contacts the patient, organizes the flight, and flies it. AFC only has four employees but 350 pilots. Here in the US there needs to be a charitable organization (a 501(c)(3)), so the pilots are donating the flights for the benefit of the 501(c)(3). There need to be liability waivers signed by the patients and a basic set of rules. In the US, we have multiple Angel Flight organizations, each of which covers a region of the US. AFC covers the Midwest, about 11 states. There is an umbrella organization called the Air Charity Network through which flights can be shared. A patient may start out on the East Coast, be flown by an AF East pilot into Indiana or Illinois, and is picked up there by an AF Central pilot, who may then take the patient out west somewhere and hand the patient off to a pilot from AF West, just as an example. Something like that might work well in the E.U. Very often, the flights are to or from small, rural airports that do not have good commercial service. If anyone there has an interest, they can PM me and I can at least put them in touch with someone from Angel Flight Central who knows the ropes and might be able to advise. Sort of like creating an EMPOA modeled on what is done here. That would be great work.

I have flown quite a few Angel Flights in the last couple of years. I do it for the same reasons I fly - I really enjoy it - and Angel Flight is a way to help others. But someone told mom and today I feel like the kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar, vaguely embarrassed. A few weeks ago I was informed that I need to make my way to Angel Flight Central’s gala on Nov. 18 in Kansas City, there to receive AFC’s 2022 Pilot of the Year Award. Then today I was surprised to receive a call from the CEO of the National Aeronautics Association. At a ceremony that will likely be held at Oshkosh next year, I am to receive the NAAs Distinguished Volunteer Pilot Award. It’s a good thing I was not flying when I got either piece of news, I probably would have put it in the ground. My aircraft, as many of you know, is nothing special. A 231 with an engine now well over TBO, oil leakage from the rocker covers has reached the incurable stage, we are waiting for a new Conti to show up. It is Mooney’s most manual version of a turbocharged piston. And yet I have safely carried well over a hundred patients and their companions, all shapes, types, and sizes, even found a way to cram a collapsible wheelchair, the patient, and patient’s mom into the plane (definitely within W&B), and on occasion, cargo to the weight limit of the aircraft. We need more folks. If I can do it in my lowly 231, you can do it!

I put in the CiES senders and they were an improvement, but I did not find them to be the miracle workers they are sometimes portrayed to be. They connect to my JPI930. I still don’t rely on tank gauges. I rely on knowing how much is in each tank at the start of a flight less fuel flow from each tank. I tested the fuel flow readout for accuracy quite a few years ago, it was accurate too .1 gallon out of 50 gallons used. Probably should test it again, but my aircraft has so much endurance, especially at LOP, that fuel is really a non-issue on the vast majority of flights, but when it is, I would not rely on the gauges for anything except a general indication of what is in each tank.

We just had a couple of threads on this. You might want to look at them. You should not operate an intercooled TSIO360 at 40”. That is an overboost. The purpose of the intercooler is to cool the induction air after it leaves the turbocharger, making it denser than a non-intercooled engine. About 37” is as high as you should go and 36” works fine too. You should have gotten a chart for the intercooler. The pilot uses the chart to adjust the power setting, starting with the settings for the factory (nonintercooled) engine, using the “differential temperature.” The differential temp is the drop in temp from the Compressor Discharge Temperature to the Induction Air Temp. The intercooler was supplied with a gauge that reads out that diff temp. The result is a substantially lower MP to create a given %HP than what is in the POH. Sounds complicated I suppose, but it is not really, after awhile you come up with some settings that work for you.