podair

1967 M20F Useful: 941bs Fuel capacity: 64gals useable (384lbs) FF Payload: 557bs NR Range: 980nm I have no idea why my empty weight is so high on my M20F, 816kg (1799lb). It is a perfectly stock 1967 M20F Executive , albeit with a 3 blade Hartzell prop and pretty well equipped in 1990s avionics (STEC ap , KNS80 , Garmin 155XL, Collins ADF). Anyway, suits me fine, I routinely fly from a 2000ft grass strip in summer with full tanks and bags, 2 adults 2 kids, no issues at all. Usual cruise is 33 litres per hour / 9000ft approx / 145kt TAS/ 2500rpm wot just tad lean of peak.

I might be interested too, but I have to check on the installation requirements on my European reg aircraft. I need to confirm it has been installed here in Europe. I spoke to ARI ages ago and they did tell me they sold a kit to Switzerland or Germany. Anyone know of it? There is another thing that is not quite clear however, do I need a new spinner? I have a Hartzell 3 blade on my M20F.

Indeed . My 178cm ones fit in my M20F (same cabin) easily, although across the rear seats obviously. They can stick out into the hat rack if needed. I think someone here once posted a pic of a ski tube in the rear fuselage, through the access panel, looked like a fabric sack that was suspended. Sorry can't answer any other questions, I'd love a 231 too! The one you posted looks great, especially the panel.

OK so which one do I get for a 1967 M20F with the standard Grimes nav lights aka Whelen A650: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/navstrobesextant.php?clickkey=110392 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/navstrobesextant1.php?clickkey=110392 the second one is experimental aircraft only and does not have the clear lenses. Apart from that it seems identical? edited to add: actually they look different now, on the other website the bulbs looked identical so the first option at $266 seems the correct one. Even the first one at $266 is a great deal, think I ll go for that one.

wow they really look like a no-brainer! Lood, did you just have to change the bulb in the original nav lights on the M20F and that is IT?? that's all? which ones did you get it seems there is a 7.5w variant and a 30w one? I have been looking at navlight strobe combos now for some time, and looked at Whelen, Aeroled, Aveo etc, which all seem to have great products but this seems to be even simpler. Change the bulb rather than the whole unit? I have the factory standard Grimes navlights (A650?) I have a LED landing light already (Whelen) and very very happy with it.

Completely agree, they are amazing, same experience, my dealings with them over the past few years reflect that, although my sturdy 1967 Mooney has needed very few parts, the few times I have called LASAR they have been outstanding, despite dealing with them from Europe. As with most things aviation, I don't bother calling local suppliers anymore, I just order parts direct from the US if I can. One example: I needed a new part for the nosegear. The part arrived at my mechanic's in the UK within days. It turned out that during its life the nosewheel had been modified with newer parts and the part designed for 1967 did not fit. Lasar told me to take several photos of my nosegear configuration and parts and email them. They had a look at it, identified the newer parts, and the SAME day sent me the correct parts. I sent back the part I originally ordered and was recredited within a week. The whole thing cost me a fair bit in shipping but it was all dealt with and the nosewheel fixed WITHIN A WEEK, despite 8 hours time difference and shipping back and forth UK/California.

Sorry I didn't mean to stir controversy, there is sadly enough of it already in the pilot world! As I said, I have never dealt with that Norwich outfit so I can't really comment, and it does seem to have all the necessary approvals and gets the job done, but I've read a few reports and had one look at the website once and just the aggressive tone of what was written on it put me off. I guess he's the Michael O'Leary of the training world. Gets the job done professionally, but might not always be a pleasant experience! I'm thinking of getting another FAA rating soon , and love Stockholm, so will maybe get the TSA guys' details off you soon! The last time I renewed my FAA ticket, I found flying for a long weekend in the US shooting lots of (free) approaches and burning cheap fuel roughly the same price as renting a school's aircraft and doing it in the UK!

Hi Anthony, welcome to the Mooniac fold. I fly an 1967 M20F out of Thruxton in Hampshire, OY-DFD (yes Danish reg!), mostly (IFR) flying back and forth to France to visit family. Would be great to meet up at some point, especially as I am planning to explore the north (which for me means anything north of Hampshire!) at some point over the next few months, as 99% of my flights so far venture south! I've had the pleasure to meet 'Awful Charlie' a few times, mostly at PPLIR meetings, and sadly have to report nothing like his avatar :-) Maintenance wise in UK, I recommend Aerotech in Coventry, Falcon at Biggin, and Shipping and Airlines at Biggin. All familiar with Mooneys and N-reg. Shipping used to be an MSC. My aircraft is however maintained by Fly West in Fontenay le Comte LFFK, by Joel Patault, close to my house there. I am not sure he can sign off N-regs, all EASA is OK, but otherwise he has developped a fantastic reputation, and knows Mooneys very well, Mooniacs fly from all over France to take their aircraft there. I've known him for nearly fifteen years and he's a great mechanic and very honest guy. I've seen the Henriot family biz in Troyes and they seem to have a good setup too and passionate about Mooneys but to be honest I've never had the need in six years to go via an MSC, the very few parts I've needed so far shipped directly to Joel or Aerotech by Lasar from California. I'd second Ben's recommendations on due dilligence on that FAA outfit. Never had to deal with them so I can't really comment, but aware of a few personality clashes. There is a freelance FAA instructor based near Leicester who seems to be a nice chap, I'll dig out his details if you need, otherwise the training outfit run by Arwyn Jones in Cambridge is excellent and very professional, and does the whole range of EASA/FAA revalidations.

DaV8or , I have exactly the same setup in my 1967 M20F. Not easily readable, but I guess it is better than nothing. I've flown a later model M20F I was impressed to see that light come on and the clear plastic panel had a 'Gear Down' lettering, making it very easy to see. I have always been wondering whether it is possible to retrofit that.

Great, thanks for the feedback. n74795 thanks for the offer , but looks like my mechanic will be able to manage with the shock mounts he has in stock. I have also given a thought about your Sandel/DG102a setup you have for sale , very tempting, but it would involve considerable installation costs so I will try and fix the existing setup first.

I am looking to buy an overhauled prehistoric remote gyro, to replace my current Bendix SG-832b gyro which is on its last legs (literally... the little rubber mounts are gone). My HSI setup is stone age, a Bendix HSD830 system, pre-Bendix/King. It has been rock solid for the past 10+ years, maybe more, can't find anything in the logs about it since the 1980s... Fieldtech have 3 of them for sale, complete with 8130s etc, and as mine is beyond repair I think, I am tempted to swap it with one of their gyros. They are offering credit for my core. Has anyone dealt with them in the past? Please PM me if you rather not post a reply. Looking at their website, they look like a great shop and I guess if they offer a warranty, why not. I am having the mounts replaced with more modern shock mounts, and see if that's the cause, and hopefully soldier on for another couple of years. Of course I'd love to ditch the whole thing and fit an Aspen, but can't afford that right now, and even upgrading to a more modern KI-525+DG102a setup would involve some serious re-wiring, so it looks like fitting an overhauled gyro is the best stop gap solution.

out of curiosity , may I ask how much a prop overhaul is in the US? My 3 blade Hartzell is due next year, and cheapest oh is around $3500. I don't think it would make much sense to ship it to the US but just curious how costs compare , as in Europe you tend to think US price +50% unfortunately....

As I tend to fly relatively high, 8,000-10,000ft, pulling the ram air open makes quite a bit of a difference on my 1967 M20F, even with a new supposedly more efficient Challenger/K&N Filter. I fly WOT with 2500 RPM and get around 1.0-1.5in more manifold pressure at those altitudes. With that, I systematically get 145kt tas with 32 liters per hour (8.5gal), 21inch and 2500 rpm, ram air open and density altitudes between 10k and 11k, about 10-15 lop. Not bad for a stock 1967 Mooney with a 3 blade prop. However, in certain circumstances, I have become a bit paranoid about using it lately (despite having run the engine flawlessly for 5 years with those settings!), especially when not in gliding distance of land (I cross the English Channel on a regular basis). I have noticed at times some ever so slightly rough running (or is it a case of over water auto rough?!), but I think it is more due to running slightly lean of peak with adequately balanced (but not GAMI) injectors. What is the downside? Of course I understand it is unfiltered, one should not use it in cloud or dusty environment. How high is the risk of intake icing in clean air? Have there been cases of engine stoppage with ram air open?

On the MFD, can you use half of it as a CDI or RMI? Or do you need a full PFD to do that, aka Evolution 2000? The upgrade I am planning would involve buying a new CDI for the nav2 vor/ils , but if the MFD can handle it then it offsets some of the cost of buying a mechanical CDI. Also, I like the Connected Panel concept and hope to display the Edm700 on that. I would like to have some redundancy if the Aspen packs up however, so maybe I ll stick with a new VOR/ILS CDI anyway, as I guess a sensor failure would affect both screens.

Now winter is approaching the back seat passengers on my M20F are complaining they are freezing, severely limiting their enthusiasm for high altitude flight.... The cabin heater is blasting hot air like a furnace up front, so I am perfectly happy at 10k ft in a Tshirt with -20 outside. However my family at the back is wearing jackets and scarves and wrapped in an electric fleece and freezing! It seems it is all coming from the baggage bay. Has anyone found a convenient way to redirect some of the heat from the heater vent on the pedestal to the back seats, like some kind of removable duct or hose? I have also thought of maybe sealing the baggage area with a fleece or padded curtain, with velcros attaching it to the roof of the cabin. I have replaced the door seals and it has made some difference already. Any suggestions welcome !

I ve had a Trig TT31 in my M20F for five years. It has worked absolutely flawlessly. I had a KT76, so it was a 2 minute slide out , slide in job. Here in Europe you also need to apply for a minor modification ($300 fee plus $300 paperwork from the shop) permit whenever you change anything minor, unless the manufacturer has already applied for it on your behalf. To its credit, Trig pre-applied for dozens of aircraft type to the EASA , saving owners the fees, already suffering for having to upgrade to mode S (mandatory for IFR in Europe). Also happy to support the few European manufacturers that still exist. Installing a Garmin would have meant installation fees ($1000) plus the minor mod, so the choice was an easy one. It also has an ADS-B output I think, although here we can't use it yet (we get all the mandatory requirements without the side benefits, such as Mode S but no TIS, IFR GPS pretty much mandatory but you are required to keep ADF and DME). Having used both, I think the digit buttons on the Garmin are a good idea, but the squawk selection on the Trig with the knob is very easy too. I think Aviation Consumer had a review recently. If you have a KT76 I think it is a no brainer to use the Trig, unless you absolutely want to pay for some install work and have an all Garmin panel.

Hi ! I am based in London and fly my 1967 M20F out of Thruxton in Hampshire, mainly back and forth to France to visit family. Drop me a line, I am looking for excuses to go flying this autumn/winter as the summer family flights are now over! Thruxton is a bit far from central London but pretty convenient for me and quite affordable parking and fees. Over the years I've pretty much circled the M25, starting flying at Blackbushe, rented from Elstree, bought a share in White Waltham, and parked at Biggin, North Weald and Fairoaks ! They all have their pros and cons. There is a non equity modernised M20F group at Biggin that looks quite well run, and a very well run group in Cambridge with an M20J.

There are quite a few C182s in Europe converted with the SMA engine (230hp). They are certainly not 155kt aircraft... When SMA launched the engine a while ago (mid 1990s?), the TB20 was the launch aircraft, Maule had an OEM variant, and Cirrus looked at it too early 2000s. SMA also planned to look at Piper Senecas, Aztecs, Cherokee 6, A36s and... M20s! So there is hope! I think I might even have an email from them listing what they were looking at. In the end I think they only finished the 182 STC and the OEM Maule all the way to certification. From what I heard it is a good engine and directly designed for aircraft use (as opposed to adapting an automotive one like Thielert), but it had its share of initial troubles, which is why Cirrus abandoned the idea. However SMA entered into an agreement with Continental a couple years ago I think, which hopefully ironed out some of the quirks. As always however, the retrofit option is probably not going to be economical, at least 2 or 3 times the cost of an overhaul, so only worth it if you fly a lot of hours , Jet A1 cheaper (half the cost of avgas in Europe), or can't get avgas at all!

Thanks! I did find the discussion about the landing light, and I am pretty much set on the Whelen PAR46 (and the 36, I have both). However, I am also looking to replace the wingtip nav lights, there was also a discussion about the Aeroleds strobes, and I can't find that one, and that's why I am curious if anyone has installed the Aeroled combo nav light/strobe, rather than a classic navlight/strobe/flasher.

Hi I am looking to replace some of the lights on my 1967 Mooney M20F. I am pretty sure I will replace the landing/taxi light (I have both a PAR46 and PAR36, retrofitted) with the Whelen Parametheus. They are PMA so it makes it much easier in Europe, where I am based and where the aircraft is registered, for the paperwork. I am also looking to replace the (flat) wingtip navigation lights, with a nav light / strobe combo. The Whelen ones look very good and straightforward, but require a flasher unit as well. I have come across this new company and remember someone talking about them on the forum but can't find the post http://www.aeroleds.com/ http://www.aeroleds.com/'>It seems their wingtip/strobe combo does not require a flasher unit. Has anyone installed them? Anyone know if they are PMA (I will email Aeroled as well). Many thanks

actually I have the same setup in my M20F too! I would not want an aircraft without one. Been raving so much about it that one of my best friends wants to install one in his, hence the email. I have forwarded your contact details to him. Many thanks! Would love to meet up for a beer too but unfortunately I am a bit far away! (UK)

Hi is it still available? Sent you a PM and an email Thanks, Patrick

welcome to the forum Justin! I also own a 1967 M20F in England, I am now returning to Fairoaks after a couple years in Madrid. We should meet up! It seems on mine there are liberal amounts of silicone sealant along the top cowling panels, not the prettiest solution but I have never had an issue with water leaks. (for some website bug I got upgraded to an M20S above! Sorry Chris)

Quote: Awful_Charlie +1 And it's a bit too 'organised'. Something nearer an aerodrome where I can come and go to my own schedule rather than have to get the Navette back and forth would be better IMO