Marc_B

Seems like short and mid bodies don’t typically have it. Long bodies added rudder trim along with the addition of more HP. Some in the middle had STEC yaw damper that doubled as rudder trim. Is there a path to add rudder trim if you don’t have it? Or to change to typical rocker switch with standard Globe rudder trim motor if you had to replace the STEC YD with a GFC500 install?

@PT20J I saw that thread. I think that most agree that the modern integrated YD makes sense. So the follow up questions are can the S-tec be set up as a stand alone rudder trim along side the GFC500 YD and if not, can a standard Mooney rudder trim motor be installed in a M20K? (and what would be entailed with that...) Working with my avionics shop and sent an email to Mooney to see... Of course the underlying base question is will I even miss a rudder trim? As an aside, the S-tec YD has 3 settings (on-off-auto) and I didn't realize til now that the auto was supposed to kick on when the AP was activated and off when it was off. But with the move to the GFC500 I'm not sure that would even still be the case if I kept the S-tec YD.

@LANCECASPER and @PT20J Would it change your mind if the S-Tec had already been taken out and the Garmin YD already installed?

So I guess short and mid bodies don’t have rudder trim but long bodies do. And for the Encores (maybe others?) Mooney added a STEC yaw damper that doubled as a rudder trim. However this won’t play with Garmin YD. So options are: 1) keep STEC yaw damper so I still have rudder trim and YD. 2) take out STEC and install Garmin YD and loose rudder trim (but have YD integrated with AP). 3) take out STEC, install Garmin YD and see about adding rudder trim motor and rocker switch ala long bodies. anyone have an idea on YD comparison between Garmin and STEC? Don’t really want to give up rudder trim but also know most mid bodies don’t even have it. #1 vs #2??? marc.

I have my M20K Encore at the shop for a GFC500 install with pitch trim and yaw damper. Sounds like they've run into a hiccough regarding the yaw damper. This Encore came from the factory with an S-TEC yaw damper (see original W&B sheet below). I found a reference from AOPA mentioning “Except for the addition of an S-Tec yaw damper/rudder trim system — greatly appreciated in those long climbs to the flight levels, the Encore's flight control system is pretty much unchanged from the 252.” The avionics shop mentioned: Mooney with electric rudder trim with third party YD are to typically work as independent systems together in the flight regime. Your plane however was rigged somehow when the STEC was installed they removed the factory rudder trim motor and rigged the STEC YD trim pot to the rudder indicator assuming to replace the rudder trim system factory installed. STEC has no provision for this and you are now missing the original factory rudder trim motor and rocker switch. GFC500 goes into these Mooneys with rudder trim no problem and they remain separated systems that is why there are no special instructions in the installation for doing anything with the Mooney rudder trim. The issue still arises that the Garmin YD does not operate in this way and will not act as your rudder trim and your YD. We can discuss more tomorrow at the office but options right now are no electric trim or add the Mooney rudder trim motor and switch to the aircraft. Are there any Encore pilots out there with the GFC500 and yaw damper? How did you address this? Is it accurate that I'd need to reinstall a Mooney rudder trim motor in order to install the GFC500? Currently I have a rotary knob for rudder trim L/R and below that a 3 position switch for On/Auto/Off for yaw damper. Verified on old pictures, came from the factory with same. Thanks, Marc.

I seem to remember someone else telling me the same thing as well as reading an article about filters that came to same conclusion...can't remember the details though.

So it's interesting to see the differences in the upper horizontal panel support even between M20K's. The 252 has a flat bracket that seems to have a little more clearance, plus has a single row annunciator panel. The M20K Encore has a more rigid tube bracket that takes up an extra 0.25" or so, not to mention a 2 row annunciator. M20K 252: M20K Encore: M20K Encore Original Annunciator:

Trying to find out details on the annunciator panel to fit in a radio stack with GMC507, GTN750Xi, GTN650Xi, and annunciator. My double row annunciator won’t fit. So wondering if I could replace with single row and if I could customize the indications to fit what I need? LASAR sells an annunciator without legend and not sure if this could be customized? Gear down, gear unsafe, starter, alt air, boost pump, pitot heat, prop heat, speed brake…8 indications which is single row. Other question is in my kinds of equipment list it has 2 fuel indications as well as 2 gear indications. Regarding fuel: Wondering if this is 2 meaning left and right, vs 2 meaning two indications for the left and two for the right? I have a MVP50 that has flags and indications for all the other existing annunciator lights.

To use G100UL you would have to purchase a STC from GAMI? vs FAA approves use of G100UL in all airframes in the AML as an alternative to 100LL?

@"Chocks" @Warren @PilotX You guys have any leads for hangars around Denver?

That‘a always part of my post landing checklist after I’m off the runway: lights (as required), flaps up, trim set for takeoff, mixture leaned, transponder to ground. Basically set up for next time, and verified as with my pre takeoff checklist. Good habits build good luck I think!

@Rob 201MSE What color/paint is the darker gray? Is it metallic? Nice work for a great looking Mooney!

Garmin Aera 796 with SiriusXM GXM40 antenna. Comes with bare wire connection, yoke mount, home dock with cradle. RAM ball mount clamp is partially broken (see pic) but still works (if you were inclined to replace entire mount clamp it would be $25 found easily online). Otherwise all equipment in great shape and works well. Battery replaced last year so still holds a charge well. Databases current as of last cycle (see pics). Getting some avionics work done and changing out the yoke mount. What you see in the pictures is what's included. $550 shipped priority flat rate in US only.

Weighing procedure actually is listed in my POH and gives a method with full fuel calculation, and a method of draining fuel completely and re-adding unusable fuel.

Looking to see if anyone has perfect packable, lightweight, good range, electric solutions to throw in the back of the Mooney for day trips. I’ve seen electronic scooters, folding bikes, skateboards. But having a hard time figuring out which ones fit the bill for the Mooney. Good range, easy to load/packable, reasonably priced. Would likely need 2…but not sure if you can double up?? Lots of things found online but hard to “try it before you buy it.” Last thread about this I found here was 2 years ago and seemed that rec was for E-Twow. Around $1amu. Still best choice?? thanks!

Also I’m sure you could contact Colorado Pilots Association to connect you to an instructor. I flew with a gentleman in Longmont, Don Dolce, who previously flew a 231. It was more of a personal tour guide and experience resource rather than flight instructor for the flight.

Colorado Pilots Association has a mountain flying course that also has an optional mountain flight through Kremmling, eagle, vail, Leadville and over some well known passes. It’s worth it in my mind to get pointed experience with Colorado flying and exploring off the beaten path airports. That being said, part of the training is geared towards choosing the right weather and what resources exist to cue you into a good day to fly and how to anticipate the bad days before they reach you. Another part is geared towards reading wind, anticipation of updrafts and downdrafts, and learning to take advantage of “riding the wave” and how to cross mountain passes safely. The final big section is devoted to survival of a night out and proper preparation. Even in best case of a safe crash you still may very well have to brave an overnight before you can be found or helped. That being said, most CO airports have plenty long runways and with proper leaning if NA, or a turbo, don’t pose too great a challenge if you understand high density altitude and pay attention to it. But that’s also why I think my M20K makes a great Colorado plane. A turbo is a great equalizer. Also keep in mind flying in the front range around I-25 and east isn’t the same as flying into a mountain airport, I.e. Glenwood Springs. Flying into Glenwood you loose sight of runway till final, so when you have learned what hill to fly your pattern around and what copse of trees to aim for it makes the landing WAY less eventful and much safer…even when you already knew how to pick a perfect weather day! Good luck and have fun! Mountain flying is a really pretty and scenic adventure and like any flight over inhospitable terrain deserves a little forethought and planning.

I agree that you shouldn't make a change unless you know where you're starting to make sure you get where you're wanting to go. My guess is that the charlie weight came from the factory...I have a dual alternator that isn't checked as included in my POH as well, but I can 100% verify it's there! Getting some avionics and autopilot work done and I'll plan on an actual W&B and try to clean things up after that. I'm learning that logs and POH/AFMS are much like memories...some memories are burned in and accurate...others just seem to fade with time until they're forgotten! not sure if I need to take a master class on engineering, history, or archaeology?! I suspect this is likely the primary reason that more GA aircraft aren't reweighed more frequently. Which seems like a primary reason why you'd want to do it!

$400 at the MSC up here; an extra $41 to send a Blackstone sample.

From my POH for my aircraft.

So it's interesting that I found the following recommendation for ballasts in my POH (below), but still can't find any mention of charlie weight addition either in logs, POH or superceded W&B sheets. However, using the last measured W&B Moment and weight and subtracting out the charlie weight (if it is a 6#, moment 1224.5) would put me right along the line suggesting -501 6# charlie weight. So looks like it should be left in place for ideal CG according to POH...although I've always thought with no vacuum system, glass panel and MT prop I should have more useful load...the woes of UL envy

@KSMooniac M20K Encore. Here's the page from my POH. I don't have anything marked as installed. Don't see any mention in logs. But this is a charlie weight right?

I’m having some work done and noticed I have a weight in the tail. My POH (or any W&B sheet in my POH) doesn’t document that I had Charlie weights installed although the standard pOH does include the various Charlie weights and weights for all optional equipment. is this an extra weight that I could remove if I see fit or is this a standard part of loadout? (and pay no attention to loose washer, etc. work currently in progress…)

@Pinecone From what I've learned on the LOP side the fuel is the limiting factor. So for the compressions on the TSIO360SB with 220hp you can use 13.7 to calculate the FF using %HP * max HP / 13.7 = fuel flow in GPH. i.e. 0.65*220/13.7 = 10.4 GPH for 65%HP LOP of course this doesn't determine how many degrees LOP you are and it just applies if you are on the LOP side. The multiplier varies based on the compression, but 13.7 is good for TSIO360. Add more MAP (air) and keep FF constant to go deeper LOP. Mike Busch and Savvy have some good videos/articles on this.

This is the only reference to the Wemac valves that I can find in the service manual...and surprisingly no mention of interior item lubrication in the lubrication and service chart in the manual. Service manual interior limited to flight controls and doors/seals recommendations. Thanks for the the suggestions @carusoam and @PT20J