Marc_B

@Ragsf15e email Frank Crawford and see if he can attach your order to maintain position in queue. Seems like if it was on order it may be still in process.

I read the email that was in this thread and it sounded like Lasar potentially has the ability to source orders at wide and be the single point of contact for Mooney. Then instead of many MSCs placing orders for smaller parts numbers to Mooney and just having small orders held until it meets a threshold, Lasar will collectively take these orders and just order a batch from Mooney (or third party on behalf of Mooney) to fill the orders and shelf any overage. The email just struck me as logistics outsourcing and seemed like a positive thing. If Lasar knows that a min order is 50, they'd be able to tell you a better estimate of when this order might be fulfilled. And if it's a part that sees movement, then they might be in a position to order a min before that min is met. Mooney wasn't financially in a position to do that. Additionally since Lasar already has a public internet storefront, they now have the collective ordering power from MSCs, from local shops looking for parts, and from Mooney owners directly. I've ordered parts from Lasar and have spoke with Dan several times; he's always been super helpful and informative.

@kortopates and @PT20J I wonder how many put the sticker on the panel? I don't think I've ever seen one in any aircraft I've flown in...

If you read the research paper that CAMI produced (linked earlier), there are two aspects at play for oxygen concentrators and altitude: 1) that at a certain altitude/barometric pressure the FLOW rate declines; and 2) at a certain altitude/barometric pressure the oxygen CONCENTRATION declines. The rate of decline and altitude it starts are unit specific and can NOT be generalized to every concentrator sold. In the absence of testing form a third party (i.e. CAMI), you may only have manufacturer guidelines to assist you in determining where that barometric pressure ceiling exists. BTW, this is also likely the reason that there is a difference in Inogen altitude recommendation based on 1 or 2 users...it's likely not driven by the oxygen concentration output, but rather the flow rate.

When I purchased my aircraft in 2021 I realized the previous owner had never registered the ELT. https://beaconregistration.noaa.gov/RGDB/index You need the registration code, also known as the Unique Identification Number (UIN) or Hex ID, can be found on a label affixed to the ELT itself, and also in the manufacturer's documentation. It's likely in your logbook (mine was) when the ELT was installed. You renew the registration every 2 years and if I recall, I received an email reminder with link that made this pretty easy.

I would think that a normal SPO2 if it correlates should confirm that oxygen equipment is working as intended in the absence of CO poisoning which could result in falsely elevated SPO2. However the previous general “rules of thumb” that may have applied with other equipment doesn’t necessarily apply to different equipment with potentially different outputs. The big “catch 22” is that oxygen concentrators may have a service ceiling that affects output concentrations, whereas a bottle of aviator grade oxygen is 99.5% + oxygen regardless of altitude. So when you factor in pulse delivery vs constant flow, variability in oxygen concentration, and unknown service ceiling…you have to realize that you’re potentially a test pilot and should test yourself and occupants as well as monitor your SPO2 accordingly. You can’t use the flow rate of on board oxygen as synonymous to a concentrator at altitude. It’s not the same thing. Of course when I’m flying at altitude I’m “titrating to effect” based on pulse ox, as I’m sure we all do these days. It wasn’t that long ago that we didn’t have ubiquitous and accurate ways to monitor oxygen saturation real time and flew based on “rules of thumb”.

I think this is a little more nuanced than just flow rate. The 1LPM per every 10,000 feet is a rough rule of thumb and based on aviation grade oxygen equipment. There is a difference in the composition of the output from a bottle of oxygen and an oxygen concentrator (potentially dramatically at altitude). I.e. aviation grade as well as medical grade is 99.5% (or better) pure oxygen. But oxygen concentrators may not be able to provide that above a certain altitude as the partial pressure of oxygen is much lower than sea level. From the study I linked above from CAMI, some of the concentrators they tested reached a certain altitude and dropped the oxygen output quite a bit. Sounds like some of them also started to rise in levels of other noble gases like argon. BTW, argon is inert and non toxic but can displace oxygen in a "confined space" because it is more dense than oxygen This discussion isn’t one of “you can’t do this” or “you shouldn’t do that”. It’s a nuanced discussion of the actual limited data we have pertaining to oxygen concentrators. They aren’t all the same and may not all perform the same at altitude. We need more data to replace the speculation.

I was always curious about the change to the Encore that made Mooney decide to show the operating altitude of the 252 as FL280 vs FL250 for the Encore. But it's certainly in the POH. Does anyone know the background history for this?? From POH 3303 revA for the M20K Encore: But for the M20K 252 Information manual Number 0033550, Date 3-90:

I reached out to FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (CAMI) and they're looking to see if any recent studies have been performed with modern oxygen concentrators. They sent me a prior study using molecular sieve oxygen concentrators, and the AC on portable oxygen concentrator use in flight (more geared to pax bringing concentrator than pilot use). From their comments: * Generally, 1.5 Liter per min flow rate is only good up to 15,000 feet. 2.0 liter flow is good up to 20,000 feet. You see the connection. 2.5 liters would be required at 25,000 and 2.8 at 28,000. Obviously if you’re over 25,000 feet you would be in a pressurized aircraft (by FAR). And if these are molecular sieves that concentrate the oxygen there is typically an argon build up int stored oxygen (some units are high as 5%. That would account for the variability of the oxygen % levels. But that was with older models…newer ones may be better at scrubbing the argon out. * Questions about the practicality (and regulation) of using portable oxygen (O2) concentrators designed for medical use in general aviation (GA) aircraft have come up a lot lately. It’s questionable as to whether these units can remain efficient in an unpressurized cabin at higher altitudes (~ 10,000 up to 25,000 feet), even with a cranked up O2 flow rate. CAMI tested some portable O2 concentrators in an altitude chamber up to 30,000 feet back in the early 1990s (1st attachment), but this research was with very early model concentrators, which I suspect have vastly improved since then. CAMI has conducted no further/recent research on such units. We’re doing a trawl of the research/medical/aviation literature to see if there’s anything more recent; I’ll let you know if we come up with anything. The general gist is that there was WIDE variety of altitude limits show with the study done in 1992 from equipment to equipment (see page 6, figure 2). Modern oxygen concentrators MAY, or MAY NOT, have better efficiency and efficacy with oxygen concentration. The big question is what is the composition of concentrator output at high altitude? Given that the density of air at high altitude is less, the total amount of oxygen in the air is low even if it's much higher concentration proportionally. So in many respects, what we have to base use on is manufacturing data (not sure the details of what was tested and how in many cases), and field trials. But we do have the use of pulse oximeters that can help guide individual use to say that at minimum if equipment is, or is not, able to provide basic SPO2 requirements. Regardless of the equipment you use, I'd recommend that every pilot use a pulse oximeter regularly and test flight performance of their equipment on routine basis to make sure that the cannula, mask, flow rate, pulse dose, etc. work with their physiology and flight profile. Portable Oxygen Concentrators (AC_120-95A; 24 MAY 2016)-1.pdf Comparisons of Molecular Sieve O2 Concentrators for Potential Medical Use Aboard Commercial ACFT (England et al., 1992)_DOT-FAA-AM-92_22-1.pdf

also posted this on Cliffy’s thread. What are the chances something like this could be coordinated at Mooney factory? Making me wonder how many A&P’s per student and how to organize modules for students. Would be cool to have Mooney’s stamp on this and their label in my logs! We can dream, right?! https://www.ocflightlessons.com/maintenance-workshop/ https://aufwind.aero/workshop/ https://normanaviation.com/owner-maintenance-workshop/ A couple places offering owner maintenance workshops. A variety of topics and plans. Not sure who still offers active courses. But owner maintenance workshop seem like great idea in general. Gateway to owner assisted annuals maybe? Or at least a better understanding of what to look for and how systems work. You’d at least be better able to help troubleshoot issues, monitor post maintenance and return to service, and understand your aircraft better.

https://www.ocflightlessons.com/maintenance-workshop/ https://aufwind.aero/workshop/ https://normanaviation.com/owner-maintenance-workshop/ A couple places offering owner maintenance workshops. A variety of topics and plans. Not sure who still offers active courses. But owner maintenance workshop seem like great idea in general. Gateway to owner assisted annuals maybe? Or at least a better understanding of what to look for and how systems work. You’d at least be better able to help troubleshoot issues, monitor post maintenance and return to service, and understand your aircraft better.

I love the story Rich. I can picture one nurse to the other "what's he doing in there??" "Don't know, must be the drugs!" "Let's just hope he doesn't try the pulse ox on more than just his fingers!" But perfect description of waveform showing that you have accurate information...waveform acts up = probably not giving accurate information. Also why most quality pulse ox's have some type of graphical output of waveform (bar going up and down, or a wave tracing). Respiratory rate is either calculated from the pleth if just using a pulse ox. All the calculations are complicated, but it can use the data from the pulse ox to estimate respiratory rate and they are pretty accurate most of the time. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4309914/ But respiratory rate in a hospital setting is sometimes based on end tidal capnography (ETCO2). For you it might have been a a small mouth scoop on the nasal cannula to capture exhaled CO2 via the tube and measure that numerically / show wave form (breathe in CO2 drops, breath out CO2 goes up). ETCO2 is also connected inline to ventilators and advanced airways. Respiratory rate & ETCO2 are both great for catching early apnea (not breathing) or ineffective breathing before you begin to desaturate. Graph showing a basic idea of what happens when you paralyze a patient, they aren't breathing, and how long it takes their oxygen saturation (SaO2) to drop...usually it's somewhere around 3-6 min. Versus if you stop breathing your end-tidal CO2 (exhaled amount of carbon dioxide) drops immediately. So for procedures, respiratory rate and ETCO2 are super helpful to catch issues before they result in drop in oxygen levels. This is somewhat pertinent to pilots as well, as everyone has different baseline physiology that may or may not result in desaturation more quickly with an oxygen issue in flight. We can't always predict who will, or will not, desaturate more rapidly, but critical ill patients, obese patients, and children usually desaturate quicker than a normal, healthy adult.

One of @201er's polls. It looked like from the responses that it's almost 50:50 with a preference towards gear first. I think the general gist of gear vs flaps is if you are full flaps AND properly trimmed...raising the flaps first on a go around with full power can be a handful. Raising the gear while simultaneously trimming down, then reducing the flaps makes for a safer go around. So the answer isn't just dependent on what reduces more drag.

I'll have to try out the speed drop with full flaps, I don't know the answer to that. But I'll say that dropping gear roughly drops speed 25 kts and it's more or less similar to the effect of speed brakes in my M20K. ** I wish the video had done the reverse...stabilize in the landing configuration and then go to approach flaps and see how much speed added; then go back to landing and raise gear and see how much speed added. I also would have liked to see the delta speed for approach flaps at 120 to full flaps at 120 (the video used zero to full). But I'm sure full flaps have LOADS of drag as that was a "tool in the toolbag" for power off 180's: if you were high you could drop the flaps and point the nose at the ground and it wouldn't pick up more kinetic energy, but if you didn't have flaps in you'd just trade potential energy for kinetic energy, speed up and just float. Regardless of what you do. The moral of the story is have a plan and practice it. A go around shouldn't be a "surprise" as what happens. In my mind this should be a well honed skill by every pilot! Personally, I was trained by @donkaye, MCFI so I'm a gear first kinda guy. But on an instrument approach I'm also a 10 deg flaps kinda guy so the pitch up moment with power added is non-existent. ...So in that respect, maybe I'm a flaps, gear, flaps guy and just have the first step already staged!

Fortunately my shop signs off the logs and annual when they're done. I'd be super irritated if my annual was signed of and then the following month returned to service. At least with this year I moved from a May 2025 expiration date to a July 2026 exp.

+1 going through annual inspection, including lube points, choice of lubricants and timing/frequency of lubrication. Common items on a Mooney PrePurchase Inspection and what to make sure gets done. Common points where corrosion are found and easy ways to look for them. Gear & flight control rigging; what's right and how to tell when it's wrong. Removing & replacing gear doors for grass field landings. Examples of various equipment on the bench (i.e. alternator, magneto) and how they're serviced, what fails, and maintenance should/must do's. Gear swings and emergency gear deployment. Easy owner performed maintenance items (oil changes, tire change, etc.).

I'd be curious for the A&P's out there. What can an owner do that helps you? 1) I'd imagine first off start your own troubleshooting and have a clear idea of the problem from the start 2) parts...would you rather me source my own parts, or would you much rather purchase them yourself and take advantage of the markup? 3) small jobs...do you like small jobs that you can round up shop time and have an easy problem to address, or do you just want jobs that take longer than the hours you bill? 4) gifts...does pizza, doughnuts, gifts make you more appreciative of my business or is there something else I could do to show my appreciation for a job well done? 5) advertising...how can I help you best to spread praise for your shop? word of mouth? online reviews? boards such as this? 6) how long SHOULD I wait before calling or emailing? Is a call more disruptive or does an email take longer to answer? Is a check in (in person vs call) in 1-2 weeks unreasonable? Should I be waiting for YOU to contact me? 7) what are your biggest pet peeves with me (or other owners) in general? 8) Would you rather address every squawk you find at annual or would you rather me take a more proactive roll in addressing the list and defer the items that aren't airworthy for me to address on my own (or at a later time)? 9) Would you rather me perform maintenance during the year to arrive at annual with as short a list as possible, or is it better for me to keep a list of squawks and address them all at once at annual?

I don't think that's the issue. I brought a freshly smoked brisket for my avionics install, have brought them pizza, usually pay the day I pick up or put a check in the mail the day I receive an invoice. But they are still swamped enough that it took a month to finally get me in to troubleshoot a transponder antenna. The delays seen AREN'T because your shop doesn't like you and you're a nuisance (okay, maybe some people are). It's because their plate is full and they can't eat everything at once. So it's a continual process of triage and sometimes that works in your favor (i.e. AOG) and sometimes it just leads to delays that they probably don't like either. But the unclear expectations cause the most frustrations. The aspect of maintenance that I think a lot of shops could improve on was setting a clear expectation. Use the Disney phenomenon of under-promising and over-delivering. If my shop gave me a squawk list and I could say "I'll come into the shop and take care of 3, 5, 7-10 and 12" and they were okay with it, I'd love it!! Instead it's often things they already addressed during the inspection and rolled into the bill. They don't want me in the shop, they'd prefer that I leave the plane and a blank check, and say take care of it all and call me when it's done. That's the way to maximize THEIR efficiency. Not pizza.

@Danb I'm dealing with this now. I'm into week 6 and still not a definite ETA. List is small and only has minor squawks (tighten this, adjust that), and this is probably my most simple annual yet. Only parts to wait for were GFC500 servos that I was getting warranty exchange for (my pitch servo crapped out) and asked if that would delay annual if we did it on drop off; told Garmin says it takes ~2 days to ship new ones and we can easily get it done before the annual is done. My last 3 annuals have taken 3-4 weeks; first one was the first time they inspected my mooney; one of these I replaced baffles; one of these I did a 500hr IRAN mag and installed a SureFly. I think the Mooney is seeing more back burner time because there are more airplanes than humans fixing them. I suspect that unfortunately there isn't a solution, I just wish my shop communicated delays better so I had a clear expectation of when to expect communication and what to plan for. This year I still haven't even received a cost estimate or ETA at all. Needless to say I'm as frustrated as you are. But I'm perpetually wondering if the grass is greener on the other side...I suspect it also has just as many weeds...or is that cobwebs? I'm guessing that as GA contracts, more people going through A&P school take jobs working on the commercial aviation side. I'm still trying to figure out how we set up a Concierge service like Mike Busch has talked about. I think the leverage would be a single A&P working on a small group of planes with a membership...unfortunately I suspect that would be better served with an A&P who's winding down, rather than just getting started and would potentially come with enough insecurity that it'd be hard to find and replicate. I'm thinking that the only way to control how long it takes is by moving to owner assisted maintenance with an available and accommodating A&P/IA.

Where's EGT2?

This is interesting as it looks like EGT2 starts out higher than the pack, but your EGT's all drop immediately on pulling fuel flow. I would think that if it was a rich mixture and you're leaning that the EGTs would rise, peak and then fall. And your CHT1is already dropping out of the pack well before the others while the EGT1 is staying relatively steady to begin with. EGT 3 initially bottom of the pack but starts to rise as you drop the fuel flow while the CHT3 plummets. After you start enriching mixture EGT2 rises back to the top quicker than the other. Basically doesn't seem to fit a single injector or plug. Seems it affects more cylinders than that. Am I looking at that right? Plug: less burned fuel in cylinder = lower CHT + more fuel to burn in exhaust = higher EGT Fuel Injector partially clogged: if ROP runs more lean than the others so EGT/CHT both higher; if LOP then running leaner = lower EGT & CHT Fully clogged injector: EGTs cold and CHTs dropping https://www.savvyaviation.com/understanding-cht-and-egt/

It will be interesting to see how 'supervision' is eventually interpreted. I thought after all Mike Bush's consternation and complaints about the letter of interpretation of what constitutes Supervised Maintenance that there may be developments of remote video supervision. I could easily see work being recorded and then key steps reviewed as needed. This could easily be expanded to owner-assisted maintenance where certain steps are supervised by a video camera and then checked off by an A&P remotely. If you "bought in" to a service, you might be supplied with a headlamp video camera and instructions on what was needed to be captured for a variety of maintenance tasks. A company like Savvy would be poised to do this easily through their network of A&Ps. i.e. if something needed onsite assistance or confirmation they could have an A&P stop by for an upcharge. Then the log entry is electronically signed and printed by the owner. Tele-medicine meet Tele-maintanence!

@Dmax Wasn't it your shop that used to have a maintenance clinic? Any possibility in revival?!?!

Looks like MooneyMax is in Branson this year. I went last year and enjoyed the lectures from Frank Crawford and Bob Kramer from Mooney. Enjoyed the factory tour. But wish there was a Mooney Owners Maintenance workshop attached. I know that years ago Maxwell did a maintenance workshop. Not sure if that could ever be revived?!? But how about a clinic put on with Maxwell and Mooney…down in Texas that has a “work day” volunteering at Mooney to get the factory cleaned up and workshop in the shop to go through a Mooney annual first hand of what they look for, owner maintenance items, and pictures showing “the Mooney Factory is still going”! Lunch at the factory lunch tables. Hands on gear swings and flight control rigging. How to properly lube and what products to use. How cool would that be?! Yes, I’m day dreaming. Can’t go to MooneyMax this year. But this would be great phot op for Mooney to have people at the factory…cleaned up, and working on Mooneys. Everyone flies in to Kerrville and the Mooneys are all staged in the hangar together! Awesomeness!!

@JLG best deal I've found https://www.scross.com/store/part-number?10-900-60-1