1980Mooney

The only engine fire that I have witnessed in 60 years was when 2 classmates tried to hand prime a V-8 w/ 4 barrel carb. The rule was to always put the air filter back on before cranking. Well one guy was pouring gasoline from a large paper cup into the carb throats as the other cranked the engine. He poured too much gasoline in to start with, puddling on the closed throttle plates and in the intake runners. He was still holding the cup near the carburetor as the engine cranked, then immediately flooded as the throttle plates opened while still cranking and then a huge flame shot straight up. The first guy, startled backwards, dropped the cup causing a second flare up. Surprisingly he only got minor burns and engine was not visibly too burned. But the hood of the car, which was up at about a 45 degree angle, had all the paint burned off the outside center part.

I am trying to understand where the highest heat was located. Was this: An over-priming event in which liquid fuel somehow running out of the engine intake or exhaust pooled somewhere inside the cowling (or on the ground) and ignited on start? An intake backfire in which liquid fuel/or rich mixture ignited inside your intake system and perhaps externally past the intake filter? An exhaust event in which liquid fuel ignited inside your exhaust system and perhaps out the tailpipe?

If you click on the person’s name or logo related to any posting or response, it will take you to their profile. The profile shows among other things, when they joined, and when they last visited Mooneyspace.

If you look at the ADSBExchange tracks it appears that the Lancair was doing low passes about 200-300 ft over the runway. Baro at the time was 30.12 so there is a 200 ft higher correction to the pressure altitudes. Winds were 7-9 kts out of 110. They were landing on Runway 12. On the first low pass, the Lancair was doing about 100 kts (groundspeed) on short Final and then 120-130 kts over the runway while remaining at about 200-300 ft AGL On the second (fatal) pass he slowed down to about 80 kts (groundspeed) on short Final but accelerated to about 100 kts while reaming 200-300 ft AGL over the runway. However the 172 ahead in the pattern was only 55-60 kts (groundspeed) on short Final and then appears to have done a touch and go During the last low pass, the Lancair was closing on the 172 at 20-25 kts on Final and then closing on the rolling/climbing 172 at about 35-45 kts while over Runway 12. That is when the Lancair collided with the 172. We don't know what was said on UNICOM (if the 172 announced intentions to do a T&G or to get off the runway) but clearly the faster Lancair overran the slower 172 ahead. "See and Avoid" didn't work. We don't know if the Lancair saw the 172 on "Traffic" - it is possible that if he did, he may have thought the 172 was rolling down the runway to exit rather than take off and climb into him. This makes a good case to not do low high speed passes over runways at uncontrolled airports. Side stepping would be safer as long as you are aware of the pattern in use at the time and what traffic is in the pattern. Lancair https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a40ef6&lat=32.418&lon=-111.228&zoom=15.3&showTrace=2025-02-19&trackLabels&timestamp=1739978908 172 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a5a534&lat=32.418&lon=-111.228&zoom=16.9&showTrace=2025-02-19&trackLabels&timestamp=1739978867

Here is the ASN link for the Cessna N463ER. The ASN link above is to the Lancair 360 MkII N3602M https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/478760 FlightRadar24 lists AeroGuard Flight Training out of Chandler as the Operator https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n463er

Embry Riddle bought the plane new from Cessna in September 2015 and owned it until June 2023. ( hence the “ER” in the N number). It was then sold to an LLC.

Here are some pictures to help you visualize. These are some of the last built. You can see the planes with wings, tail, empennage, and engine all mounted to the open steel fuselage cage and sitting on the landing gear. These are all the structural parts. The last models had a thin composite shell rather than traditional aluminum skin that is lowered around the steel framed cabin (both the aluminum and composite fuselage skins are totally nonloadbearing). The video shows more.

I think you are referring to the skins on the fuselage around the steel cage. The skins on the fuselage/tail aft of the backseat are absolutely structural of semi-monocoque design. Then think about the construction of the rudder and elevators - they are each just two skins of aluminum with corrugations for strength mated together. I think that is monocoque design - but in any event the skins are structural.

A question for those with IA knowledge out there. There seems to be a lot of different opinions on the "acceptable" way to repair a rudder skin. Is it possible for an IA in the future to declare a modification or repair previously signed off by a different IA as "Airworthy" at the time of the repair/mod to be "unairworthy" today? (i.e. declaring that it should have never been approved)

Did you notice that the last time he visited MS was August of last year?

That is good advice. Few like to discuss it on MS or Beechtalk, but not all spouses or families like, want or are willing to fly GA. Some start out cautiously agreeable, but a bad experience (which can take many forms) can change their minds. It happens.

Pricing and budgeting for avionics....$100K is low?...so you might advise $120K-140K?...or higher? Why is everyone in GA normalizing their thinking to believe that you need to invest more $$$ in avionics than the rest of your plane combined? Why does everyone think that you can't fly unless you have flat panels, the latest touch screens, the latest integrated gimmick from Garmin? Why does everyone think you have to make Garmin and your avionics shop wealthy? A GA plane has just become an aluminum or plastic can to wrap around the electronics. It is no wonder affordability of GA aircraft flying continues to decline.

Well, considering the damage that the curled fairing did in only one year to the skin of the stinger on @GeeBee's plane, one might consider going back to the simple old style flat sheet fairings. The curled fairing, while well intentioned, seems like a bad idea in practice - it has only been touched/installed by top shops and the owner yet it created substantial damage. That large stinger skin is cut at the crease and as @PT20J says it may be structural. It also looks like the skin is severely abraded about an inch or two above the crease. I suspect that the empennage needs to be removed in order to replace the stinger skin. Perhaps it could be patched but it will no longer be a smooth surface for the fairing to rub against as the trim is changed and the empennage tilts, and it will be noticeable. It is unfortunate.

You are absolutely correct.

I have had one for 4 years - actually the identical OxyGo Next. I can set mine up for one or two users. You can find the connectors, swivels, flow indicators from any medical supply/O2 concentrator supply or from Amazon. These guys want to sell you the hoses for $315 Products — Windblade Aviator™ aviation-based oxygen concentrator Interface Kits This may not be all the parts but I bought and created my own connector/splitter/hoses/cannula setup: RES010TC to connect to the large outlet on the G5/Next Salter 1225 Swiveling O2 Supply tubing connector (Male to Female) AGISH749 - AG Industries Y adapter for O2 tubing from Amazon (2) ComfortSoft Plus Nasal Cannula w/ 4 ft clear O2 supply tubing Even though you may hear the G5/Next concentrator pulse when you breathe, I wanted a visual indicator. The Windblade set up above shows an indicator also - actually two (2) for the two user set-up. I just went with one on the main line. SP Bel-Art Roto-Flo Polystyrene Flow Indicator for ¼ to ⁵/₁₆ in. I.D. Tubing (H19937-0002): Enema Flow Indicator: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific It is a red spinning wheel We fly in the low teens. Works fine.

There are a couple issues here and I will be direct. "I have a wife and 3 kids, 11,8,1; I really wanted a 6 place to take family trips, but I can't justify the acquisition cost, maintenance and operating costs on the 6 place planes I was looking at (A36, 210, 206). Then you really need to look for a 6-place plane. Look for a partnership to split the cost in half. You also don't need to have a A36, 210, 206 - you can fly a family hauler like a Piper Saratoga or Dakota The years will fly by (no pun) as you "build time" and the kids will be 15, 12 and 5 before you know it. The idea that they are going to fit in a Mooney with you and your wife is just not realistic. "After an honest conversation with my family, I don't think we'll be taking too many family trips until I've got more time, finances, and our youngest is old enough to travel." "Honest" and "don't think we'll be taking too many family trips" - is there any concern by your family about the risk of flying with you "unitl you have more time/experience"? This can be circular and self-defeating. If you don't have a plane that your growing family can fly with you on trips, then you are never going to take trips with your family. If you never take family trips then this is just a toy for you. Who exactly are you " and sharing the joy of flight" with if you buy a Mooney? Remember that you can easily be spending $15-19K/yr fixed coast and never even fly your plane - ($6K/yr for a hangar, $4k/yr for insurance, $4-8++K/yr for Annual, $1K/yr for data plans and apps). The variable cost of flying is on top of that. Some families are ok with that kind of spending and the kind of time you will have to devote to it being for you as your hobby. And let's be clear, there is no way a plane can be economically justified over other forms of travel unless you put a whopping value on your time. Remember the time spent on the actual flight may be shorter than other options but you have to spend a lot of flying time staying sharp, current - if your hangar is distant then a lot of time commuting to it and maybe a lot of time working on the plane. But if the entire family is with you using it, then it has a lot more value and the time and cost better justified.

Go to the KGVL City website. The good news is that the hangars are cheap at only $256/mo but they posted that the average waitlist time is 6 years! Lee Gilmer Memorial Airport | Gainesville, GA You are not going to get a Factory Rebuilt Lycoming for $40K. More like $55K You have missed a cost that unfortunately is more common with Mooney's - the cost to reseal leaking wetwing fuel tanks. Add $12K.

It Since you have removed the empennage fairings previously, you know that they are just 2 pieces of flat aluminum attached by screws. They are not attached together at the bottom. They are open at the bottom. There is no way for them to make physical contact with the bottom of the stinger skin. Yes they can rub the side but not the bottom. It is hard to tell from the picture but as I look at it again, both the stinger bulkhead and the stinger skin which you have cleaned up the "eroded metal" look like they are heavily corroded. Is it thin from corrosion? I notice that you have a TKS plane. Could TKS fluid from your empennage leading edges pool down there?

Does anyone else fly your plane? Test flight by any shop?

This is a pretty good serial number reference by model calendar year: https://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

Just curious - how did you get it to him in Longview? Was it able to fly under a Ferry Permit? Or did it have to be disassembled and transported? If so does the $27.5K include transportation?

OK - That explains it. This has been going on for a long time - I am assuming this plane is new to you. This was done by a prior owner. It is a "shade tree" mechanic fix. Totally unapproved. On some non-aviation sites, people talk about "fixing" loose bearing races by taking a center punch to the bearing housing to create more interference fit and to use super glue. Is the inner side housing for the bearing race also damaged/glued the same?

In all seriousness, I think you can get a new outer half from Air Power for $850. If I cross referenced properly page 5-11 of @PT20J's Cleveland Catalog above, you need part number 162-02800...but you need to verify yourself. 162-02800 | WHEEL HALF Cleveland - Air Power Inc

Piper Short Wings.Org said the same thing in discussion on loose wheel bearing races. "If you have marks (Brinneling ) on the bearing or race it probably ocurred from months of pressure & slight movement. The bearing FAILURES I've seen were at these points." Also Timken notes FALSE BRINELLING Typical causes include excessive vibration during shipment or when the shaft is stationary. timken.com/resources/timken-bearing-damage-analysis-poster_7352-small/ 5556_Bearing-Setting-Brochure-1.pdf

I thought they were made out of gold......