David_H

It seems hard to believe that paint would make a noticeable speed difference. I'm in the camp that thinks something else is going on.

I’ll also agree that the stall warning system is fairly robust. The airspeed reading could very well be off.

Is it possible to take a CFI up with you to do a few stalls to see where the airspeed is when the stall happens?

What airspeed are you climbing out at?

I don't think anyone is going to put any effort into re-inventing the transponder anytime soon. That only leaves picking up the existing transponder signal in some way. It's only a signal... so there is only so much that can be done after it leaves the box. Big G made sure anyone that had any ideas about bringing a low-cost ADSB solution to the market thinks really hard about it (or doesn't even try). That sure looks a lot like blocking an entire market to me. I can't see how that is helpful for GA.

Thanks for the info Greg. I just had the transponder start acting up this weekend while flying around all these TFRs in the Midwest so the plane is in the local avionics shop now to see if the KT76A can be again resurrected. If the KT76A has had it’s last day, then that might change things. During my conversation at the local avionics shop, they said the GDL system really wasnt much of a savings over the GTX335 due to the install times. I was a little surprised by the statement... but can’t speak intelligently about the install times either. Feel free to send me a message if you have some ideas you think are worth looking into. It really seems like the Wild West with this ADSB stuff.

Mike, what did the install run you “all in?” Of course all installs will be different... but it would be a solid data point.

One of the KX-170B’s currently installed in the panel has a scratchy and intermittent volume knob. As crazy as it sounds with all the newer panels, I wouldn’t mind being able to slide a Mac1700 into the 170B slot to have a flip-flop radio. If I can’t find one of them, and the current radio can’t be repaired, I may need to find a donor KX 170B. Anyone know of anything out there?

If it’s an innovative product that accomplished a tangible benefit and individuals are free to buy it or choose not to, then I would agree completely. However, the mandate Prohibits us from flying in certain airspace’s unless we purchase and install an ADSB product. I’m of the opinion that patents were meant to exist in a free market, not a forced market. All that said, I’m aware that my opinion means very little to the groups mandating this solution to address a problem that currently doesn’t exist. It would be nice to figure out an option that isn’t so intrusive to the flying account since there isn’t much of a benefit.

I'm not sure of all the specific details... but the end result looks to be obvious. A patent can be made general enough to essentially box an entire market in. I can't say I care for that approach when a govt. mandate is also involved. Stifling competition doesn't benefit the public or the aviation community.

Does anyone have any experience with install time for the GDL-82 system? I've seen install times posted online that are all over the place. The install looks to be a splice-in solution... which appears as if the time would remain somewhat consistent for several different airframes. The SkyBeacon or TailBeacon look to be attractive options... but the lawsuit with the not-so-friendly Big G is a little concerning. I don't know if it matters who wins in the end. It looks like Big G intentionally set up a chilling effect to ensure customers are afraid to buy into other products which could place uAvionix into financial distress. Worse yet, this could be seen as hugely discouraging for other developers who could bring competing solutions to market. It looks like Big G threw a legal wet blanket on the chances of anyone else bringing a product to market before the 2020 deadline. Perhaps it's best to just wait it out to see what happens in 2020. I don't really subscribe to the idea that much useful capability is gained with ADSB-out.

The new Piloto relief tube?

This is actually a very interesting question in my mind. There is a lot of work involved on the front end. I do wonder how many Brokers would actually be worth the cost. If they did their job, probably invaluable. However, if you are hiring a Broker, chances are high that you wouldn't know what a good job looks like. I say that because I don't know that I could really be able to tell what a good job looks like either since value is subjective.

I didn't realize I was "stomping" on the listing. Actually I don't recall saying anything negative about the plane that was listed. -David

It amazes me when some people want only one side of a conversation. I strongly agree with Paul and couldn't have said it more clearly myself. The comments aren't harsh at all... its simply the reality. Airplanes aren't like cars. You don't come out ahead by "bringing them back"... as much as I would like that to be that case.

This topic has a real tailwind. I don't think there's an actual debate going on. Everyone seems to agree... yet not agree.

That's pretty much how it normally looks when flying over extremely rural areas... unless it's clear enough to see the lights of the next city. While some people don't like night flying VFR for this reason, I really enjoy it. You're really flying by instruments at that point and the IFR training would be helpful without a doubt. I suppose it all comes down to what you're comfortable with. The air is usually calmer and less people are on with flight following at night. I tend to be more concerned with animals wondering onto the runways at night.

In 10 years everyone will be talking about the need to update an antique GTN 750.

The color black supposedly makes things look smaller.

Buying the perfect plane would be a phenomenal challenge... and near impossible for anyone to accomplish. I'll be happy if I'm fortunate enough to get by without being the next poor soul to be saddled with spar corrosion, a spalled cam, or any other multitude of things that could easily happen.

If that happens then a great service has been provided to both the buyer and the seller. A buyer would know not to overpay and the seller would know to be more realistic. Thats a win-win in my eyes.

My priorities are very similar and I don't think this line-of-thinking represents a minority... those pesky buyers and their priorities. I've read a few threads talking about waiting for the "right" buyer to come around. I would imagine those sellers have someone in their ear telling them what they want to hear. I just shake my head. I've yet to read a thread where someone has said they bought specifically because of the paint scheme. Maybe I missed it though.

Not really... I'm not speaking to anyone in particular, but only a few have given actual valuation numbers backed with reasons. Other posters have just bantered about why they thought the ones that actually posted numbers were wrong. There is value in that data as well... just not nearly as much. Those that say just "write the check" since acquisition are the small cost... I hope you're around when it comes time for me to sell

I completely agree with this statement and it describes my thoughts well. A plane can either be hangared or it can be kept on tie down. One is far superior to the other in terms of preserving the present quality of the plane. That said, what are the first points of failure when a plane is kept on tie-down? Its the paint and interior. If an owner chooses to keep the plane on tie-down... they have made the decision to defer the maintenance costs of the paint and interior. Is it a bad decision? That's debatable, not my choice anyway, so it doesn't even matter what I think. However, I'm not going to pay for the shiny new paint that the present owner thinks is perfect because it saved them on hangar rent.

The perfect plane will never be available since everyones idea of perfect is different and I'm completely ok with that. That said, I don't think asking for a discount because it isn't everything I want is good practice. For example, I wouldn't detract from a planes value due to it's color as long as it's in the realm of "normal". Likewise, I'm not going to increase the value based on a color either. Therefore, it takes much of the aesthetics out of the decision and bases a decision on utility, condition, and functionality. That said, if an owner decides to pay a lot of money to paint a plane with a "non-standard" scheme... expect the potential market to shrink when it comes time to sell. I don't think anyone on here is quibbling about $5K at this point. Business decisions are usually based on percentages. If it isn't treated as such, then it becomes an emotional decision. Would I overpay 5% to have the perfect plane... probably so. Would I overpay 35% to have everything the present owner thinks is the perfect plane... no.