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Posted

Thanks for reviving this thread. We haven't heard from him in a bit. Hope all is well and he has his instrument rating completed as well.

Having a gear up, getting a nonrenewal on insurance and having the FAA say, it might have been a mechanical issue but you need to do a 709 anyway...very emotional time.

 

I took the 709 ride and had no trouble with it. But I put away my instrument books and broke out the private study guides and PTS and worked for a couple of weeks studying. I  flew in a Piper Arrow 3 to 4 times to make sure I was up to speed on systems, procedures and checklists.

 

The take away is this. If you can get out of a 709 do so. On this ride there are three outcomes possible: pass, you get to keep your license, fail but they think some remediation would help so you go work with an instructor and retest, and fail the FAA takes your license and walks away. Its there call.

 

With that said you are supposed to also be able to request training instead of a checkride....my inspector said no.

Whatever plane you use, an A&P FAA Inspector will check the plane and logs and it is a bit more detailed than a normal private pilot log check.

 

So what did I see a special areas?  Checklists.  While I use checklists and GUMPS and have over 50 hours in instrument time in preparation for the instrument checkride, it is still not to the level the FAA wants you to reach. 

 

Example: We all know "gear wont come down" procedures cold....at least I do...I can recite the book....no good....FAA says you have to pull out the checklist and use it ...not just memory....also we all know what to do on climb out...I know I don't use a written checklist at this time....no good. Once I climbed out to a cruise level they expect me to check my checklist so that I did everything to that point I should have.....so have all your checklist handy and use them at all stages..granted there are times we must use memory but afterward we need to check out work...

 

Know the PTS special emphasis areas cold..They were covered...all of them.

 

The flight itself was anti-climatic.  twice around the pattern with stop and gos and we were done. Ride was critiqued but it was over.

The FAA examiner as an individual did not want me to fail and did not want to spend any more time needed to get through the areas she needed to cover.

Have the right attitude and work very hard to cooperate with the FAA examiner....they know how we feel and seem a bit guarded until you let them know you are taking this as a learning experience and are a capable pilot.

 

What else can I share.  I had the option of keeping my plane and having it repaired or totalling it. My insurance company could not guarantee I would be renewed so I totaled it. They did send me a nonrenewal and at the time no one would insure me.  Since then I found rental insurance and believe I will be able to get owners insurance but I am not 100% sure yet.

 

My private pilot instructor, MayCay Beeler at KGSO was a tremendous support when I felt like throwing in the towel as was my IFR instructor Bill Schwabenton. They made sure I remembered that I was a good pilot and reminded me of the time and investment I had in flying. The other people at TAA Flight Training bent over backwards to make sure I had a plane to do the 709 and were very supportive from the owner to the desk folks. The community of aviation is why I am still flying....There are jerks and others who believe they know it all but for the most part aviators on this board and others and those in my community cheered me on....Thank you all.

 

If anyone has any other questions or reads this later and wants to reach out to get more information please don't hesitate.

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Posted
Thanks for reviving this thread. We haven't heard from him in a bit. Hope all is well and he has his instrument rating completed as well. Having a gear up, getting a nonrenewal on insurance and having the FAA say, it might have been a mechanical issue but you need to do a 709 anyway...very emotional time. I took the 709 ride and had no trouble with it. But I put away my instrument books and broke out the private study guides and PTS and worked for a couple of weeks studying. I flew in a Piper Arrow 3 to 4 times to make sure I was up to speed on systems, procedures and checklists. The take away is this. If you can get out of a 709 do so. On this ride there are three outcomes possible: pass, you get to keep your license, fail but they think some remediation would help so you go work with an instructor and retest, and fail the FAA takes your license and walks away. Its there call. With that said you are supposed to also be able to request training instead of a checkride....my inspector said no. Whatever plane you use, an A&P FAA Inspector will check the plane and logs and it is a bit more detailed than a normal private pilot log check. So what did I see a special areas? Checklists. While I use checklists and GUMPS and have over 50 hours in instrument time in preparation for the instrument checkride, it is still not to the level the FAA wants you to reach. Example: We all know "gear wont come down" procedures cold....at least I do...I can recite the book....no good....FAA says you have to pull out the checklist and use it ...not just memory....also we all know what to do on climb out...I know I don't use a written checklist at this time....no good. Once I climbed out to a cruise level they expect me to check my checklist so that I did everything to that point I should have.....so have all your checklist handy and use them at all stages..granted there are times we must use memory but afterward we need to check out work... Know the PTS special emphasis areas cold..They were covered...all of them. The flight itself was anti-climatic. twice around the pattern with stop and gos and we were done. Ride was critiqued but it was over. The FAA examiner as an individual did not want me to fail and did not want to spend any more time needed to get through the areas she needed to cover. Have the right attitude and work very hard to cooperate with the FAA examiner....they know how we feel and seem a bit guarded until you let them know you are taking this as a learning experience and are a capable pilot. What else can I share. I had the option of keeping my plane and having it repaired or totalling it. My insurance company could not guarantee I would be renewed so I totaled it. They did send me a nonrenewal and at the time no one would insure me. Since then I found rental insurance and believe I will be able to get owners insurance but I am not 100% sure yet. My private pilot instructor, MayCay Beeler at KGSO was a tremendous support when I felt like throwing in the towel as was my IFR instructor Bill Schwabenton. They made sure I remembered that I was a good pilot and reminded me of the time and investment I had in flying. The other people at TAA Flight Training bent over backwards to make sure I had a plane to do the 709 and were very supportive from the owner to the desk folks. The community of aviation is why I am still flying....There are jerks and others who believe they know it all but for the most part aviators on this board and others and those in my community cheered me on....Thank you all. If anyone has any other questions or reads this later and wants to reach out to get more information please don't hesitate.
Austin -- I'm glad to hear you successfully passed and are back in the saddle. It was interesting to read your comments about the checklists. I went through a 141 school for my private and it was drilled into me to use them. I had a couple of instructors over the past 25 years comment to me about how dedicated I seem to be to the checklists. I always thought others used them as much as I do. I have a kneeboard that I have dedicated to the task. It includes sections on all aspects of the flight and emergency procedures. I do find them handy. I normally use the "flow method" and then verify with the checklist. post-9886-13742480389358_thumb.jpg
Posted

I'm in a small group of pilots with a recurring question:

 

Part 135 and Part 121 operators (even single pilot) use their checklists and have a wonderfully low accident rate. So do Part 91 commercial and corporate operations.

 

Our group - non-commercial/non corporate Part 91 pilots actively resist the use of checklists. And we have a comparatively bad accident rate. About as good as motorcycles.

 

Despite the clear correlation (not to say causation) between the use of checklists and accident rate, we simply refuse to use them.

 

How come?

Posted

I have a kneeboard that I have dedicated to the task. It includes sections on all aspects of the flight and emergency procedures. I do find them handy. I normally use the "flow method" and then verify with the checklist. attachicon.gifImageUploadedByTapatalk1374247964.825067.jpg

 

My personal checklists are similar to yours but they are on my iPad at this point - bookmarked for normal and emergency and abnormal procedures (as well as some. It seems the most of the time I spend with them is the process of making them more useable in flight.

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