Weight loss plan

[tlandrum]

Has anyone even tried to put their plane on a weight loss plan? I am looking to buy, and found one I really like, but she is a real fatty. I had a guy tell me they could likey find 30, 40, or even 50 lb of weight to loose. Any thoughts on doing something like this? Possiable? Outragiously expensive? I know the original weight was listed as well under 1600... but I sure haven't anything near that!

Anyone got an real numbers on cost and weight reduction on this?

[PilotDerek]

How heavy is the plane? What's it useful load wo fuel? I think it would depend what it has that is expendable, i.e. ADF. 

[tlandrum]

There are a couple I am looking at. One is about 900... I know the three blad prop on her is heavy. Another is about 930. I have said 950 was my floor, but trying to decide if 20 min of fuel is worth it... or if there is a really a chance to help her loose 30-40 then I will be very happy with it. But I don't know if this was just some guy talking, or if it is realistic. 

[Lood]

I replaced my old, heavy KX175's with a KX155 and KY197 and I also removed the ADF and DME as I don't fly IFR. I had all obsolete wiring removed that was left in the airplane over the years. Finally, I replaced the original starter with a light weight model.
Man, was I surprized when my airplane gained 73lbs after all the above?

[tlandrum]

I figure there has got to be a lot of random wires back there after 40 years of life & swaping one thing or another. But, just to make sure I hear you right.... Gained 76, or gained 76 or useful load??? Because I have been told that planes do just gainweight over the years even without changing anything!

[Hank]

I think the whole thing is a paperwork and arithmatic exercise for the A&P. Remove everything, weigh it up and calculate the change in weight & CG. Our African friend has a requirement to put the plane on the scales every few years; over here, we don't do this, and some pilots are afraid to even think about it.

So run some numbers and see what they turn up. It shouldn't be hard to find weights and arms for things like starters, DME units, ADF antennas, etc. The "savings" will depend upon what is installed, and what if anything has been cleaned up by previous owners. I still have the towel-rod ADF loop antenna on my tail because it will be lots of sheet-metal work covering up holes followed by a 3-color painting job to help hide it. But the wires are gone!

[KSMooniac]

What model Mooneys are you shopping?  There are big gross weight and useful load differences between an E and F, for example.  It is not uncommon to see useful loads >1000 lb on F models, or even early J's like mine.

If you get serious about a plane, during the pre-buy you should absolutely remove an interior panel to check for steel tube condition and at that point you can check how much/many wires are running along the left side...that will give you a good indication of how much dead weight might be there, and especially how diligent previous owners were with updating.  Updating the panel with modern avionics will help tremendously if it is loaded with vintage stuff.  The metal 3 blade props add a LOT of weight on the nose which can be rectified by putting a proper 2-blade or the MT composite 3-blade prop on there.  Rotating beacons are heavy and can be replaced with modern equipment or removed if you have strobes.  Interiors can be heavy.

[Piloto]

I think you are going to be better off loosing weight yourself than your plane. A hip replacement is going to cost you more than any work on your plane to loose weight. Think about it, you loose 50 pounds and everybody will notice. Your plane loose 50 pounds and nobody will notice.

José 

[Lood]

Quote: tlandrum

I figure there has got to be a lot of random wires back there after 40 years of life & swaping one thing or another. But, just to make sure I hear you right.... Gained 76, or gained 76 or useful load??? Because I have been told that planes do just gainweight over the years even without changing anything!

[jetdriven]

I dont think you can realistically find 40 LBS of weight to discard in a Mooney without serious chopping.  FWIW we did get rid of a few things such as the KR-86 ADF system (-7 LBS),  Northstar GPS swap for KLN89B (-1.6 LB), Plane Power Alternator (-2.6 LB, MUCH more for a gen swap),  KI-201 swap from KI-208 (-1.8 LB), old Brittain TC swap for modern TC100 (-2.0 LB).   THen we lost some by adding shoulder harnesses (+1.0 LB), Concord RG35AXC battey (+5.0 LB), and the electric attitude indicator swap from TC (+1.6 LB).

In the end, we revised the W/B 4 times this year, and a net loss of 5 LB only. 

You might have an old Narco Superhomer or a KN61 DME, but dumping both of those together are only going to net you 12-15 LB at most.  I have seen the wire bundle to the tailcone and it is not all that much either.  A KX-170B is a marge radio and weighs 7 LB, but a KX-155 weighs 5, so only a net of 2 LB.

Dont forget the possibility of math errors on a 40 year old plane. The original W+B ws an estimate anyways. Then after adding and subtracting all those times, could be wrong. Wheeling it on the scales for a cursory look might pay off, you dont have to log it unless it benefits you.

[danb35]

Quote: jetdriven

Dont forget the possibility of math errors on a 40 year old plane.

[tlandrum]

Quote: jetdriven

 Wheeling it on the scales for a cursory look might pay off, you dont have to log it unless it benefits you.

[PTK]

Quote: tlandrum

I know of a place where you can weigh a plane... But if you weigh it you don't have to report it? Or is that just speculation??? And do the people who weigh planes know the correct answer?

[tlandrum]

If my useful load all of a sudden was 800lb I sure would want to do something! I know plenty of people who will fly overweight (have not, would not), but if one peice of paper says I am within weight, and the other says I am not... well... I likely would use the one that says I am. Is that unsafe? I don't know, it isn't any more unsafe as the flying you were doing.

[tlandrum]

If my useful load all of a sudden was 800lb I sure would want to do something! I know plenty of people who will fly overweight (have not, would not), but if one peice of paper says I am within weight, and the other says I am not... well... I likely would use the one that says I am. Is that unsafe? I don't know, it isn't any more unsafe as the flying you were doing.

[tlandrum]

If my useful load all of a sudden was 800lb I sure would want to do something! I know plenty of people who will fly overweight (have not, would not), but if one peice of paper says I am within weight, and the other says I am not... well... I likely would use the one that says I am. Is that unsafe? I don't know, it isn't any more unsafe as the flying you were doing.

[tlandrum]

If my useful load all of a sudden was 800lb I sure would want to do something! I know plenty of people who will fly overweight (have not, would not), but if one peice of paper says I am within weight, and the other says I am not... well... I likely would use the one that says I am. Is that unsafe? I don't know, it isn't any more unsafe as the flying you were doing.

[N601RX]

The generator to plane power alternator conversion and lightweight starter will save you right at 20lbs and combined they only cost around $1000.  They also make the plane better and are good investments.  If there is an old ADF and extra wire behind the panel that will get you another 10lbs. I pulled a garbage can full of old unused wire and coax out from behind our panel.  That's 30lbs total, after that is going to get cost prohibitive if the only reason to do it is to gain useful load.

[PTK]

Quote: tlandrum

If my useful load all of a sudden was 800lb I sure would want to do something! I know plenty of people who will fly overweight (have not, would not), but if one peice of paper says I am within weight, and the other says I am not... well... I likely would use the one that says I am. Is that unsafe? I don't know, it isn't any more unsafe as the flying you were doing.

[Lood]

That's my point. I've flown my Mooney according to the empty weight, 1700lbs, as determined during its 2007 weighing session. I've actually flown it at gross weight quite a few times and it performed very well. Since 2007, I've had a number of items removed, so I know that my Mooney now weighs less than when I purchased it in 2008 and this is a fact. However, although I know that it can pick up more, I now fly it as if it has indeed gained the said 73lbs. This leaves me with a rather poor usefull load of only 967lbs compared to the healthy 1040lbs that I used to fly at. That really sucks.

[danb35]

Quote: tlandrum

[tlandrum]

Allsmiles...l was not referring to anything about you or anyone for that matter... That you was referencing you before and after you... Before and after it came to light that there was any question of what the weight was. No reference to anyone person. But I see how it could have come across as such.

Also.... Why does the F get a 150 lb Higher gross??? Is that just margin from the E??? It's basically the same plane only 10 inches longer!?!?!

[PTK]

[PTK]

Quote: 

... That you was referencing you before and after you... 

[stevesm20b]

Why is the gross weight of a 1961 "B" 2450 and a 1962 and later "C" 2575 ? They both have the same airframe and same engine.