Practicality of purchasing someone's Aspen 1000?

[AlexLev]

A friend of mine is tossing his Aspen 1000 Pro (I think it's the one with some synthetic vision) in his C210 for some G5s so that he can put in a Garmin A/P. He asked me if I was interested in putting the Aspen unit in my 68 M20G that I've owned for close to 8 years now. I've pretty much kept the panel the same since I've purchased it and haven't really contemplated upgrading any avionics up to this point. Attached is roughly what my panel looks like now.

Few questions:

1) Do I need to purchase an STC from Aspen to make it paperwork legal if I were to entertain this? I'll give them a call to see, but what would that roughly run?

2) I'll obviously have to get quotes from shops, but what's a project like this run me? I imagine I'd probably need to fab a whole new panel? Probably at least 10k for install (obv depends on shop, but curious on ballpark labor involved).

Lastly; would you do this if this was your plane? I'm honestly fine flying the steam gauges and am happy shooting approaches in actual with my current setup, but it would be fun to transition to more glass.

Any advice and thoughts appreciated

[PeteMc]

Not sure about what you need to purchase.  But you're going to need an Aspen shop to install it, so best check with them.  And if you have an Autopilot, which one and is your friend giving you the EA100 I'm assuming he has for his old AP.

Also, is it a Legacy 1000 or a ProMax?  I've had a Pro Max for 3 years now and it's been great.

[LANCECASPER]

@AlexLev I would grab the Aspen if he is offering it. The Pro 1000 is not the Max but will do fine. I probably wouldn't pay more than $1000 for it though in today's used avionics market. If you're going to pay much more plus the labor to do it then you start thinking about GI275s, which wouldn't require a new panel.

It was designed to work with legacy equipment. It will work fine with your Garmin and your King. He probably has an Aspen ACU (Analog Converter Unit). If not they are very reasonable on the used market. I think you can do it for much less that what you mentioned.

As far as panel, this is your chance to get the left side cleaned up and much more ifr-friendly. There is a Mr. Lyle Hendricks that used to come on here (https://store-hendricksmfg-com.3dcartstores.com/About-Us_ep_7.html). I believe he owned an C model Mooney. But he has the capability of producing a new panel much more reasonably that most other options. https://store-hendricksmfg-com.3dcartstores.com/Custom-Instrument-Panel--Engineering-Deposit_p_52.html (look at all of the pictures on that page especially the FAQ picture.)

 

Here's a search of posts that mentioned him: https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=hendricks&quick=1

He used to make a great Garmin GPS496 mount for the Compass post. I bought a couple of them over the years. I still use one to mount my Sensorcon CO monitor on my compass post.

Another option might be @Aerodon who also does panels.

If your Pathfinder autopilot works I'm not sure if that will interface, but the Aspen will handle most legacy autopilots. It should work since your Pathfinder doesn't have ALT hold and doesn't require attitude input (I think). The NAV and HDG should interface with the Aspen ACU.

Normally I hate to see someone tackle a big avionics project with used equipment(since labor is the same on new and used),  but this one shouldn't be that difficult if you have a shop that is open to the idea that you will be providing your own panel and Aspen. If you decide to go this route, please, for the love of all that is good, flush mount the Aspen . . lol

Here comes the "while you're in there" thoughts: You might also consider this as an opportunity to do the right side as well and install a certified engine monitor that let's you get rid of the 55 year old instruments that will eventually fail. Here's an idea of what someone did, although not exactly what I would do. But it gives you an idea. https://mooneyspace.com/topic/28197-cgr-30-or-mvp-50-i-guess-install-time/#comment-475214

 

[Pinecone]

Also, Aspen is designed to fit without panel mods.  Take out the AI and DG/HSI and install.  It fits in the two 3 1/8" holes.

Sarasota is selling refurbished 1000 Pro for $4000.   Aspen had some super deals on upgrading to Pro MAX and to 1500/2000/2500.  Even if you go all the way to 2500, the system is designed to fit in the 6 pack panel.

The EA-100 is the interface to legacy autopilots and gives you GPSS.  They are $2500 new.   It seems they are not the most robust units.  They work great, until they don't work.  With an Aspen setup, you don't use NAV mode on your autopilot, you engage GPSS on the Aspen.

My plane came with a 1000 Pro with Synthetic Vision and AOA.  I seriously thought about upgrading to 2000 Pro MAX, but decided to only do one panel upgrade and go all in.

[AlexLev]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

@AlexLev I would grab the Aspen if he is offering it. The Pro 1000 is not the Max but will do fine. I probably wouldn't pay more than $1000 for it though in today's used avionics market. If you're going to pay much more plus the labor to do it then you start thinking about GI275s, which wouldn't require a new panel.

It was designed to work with legacy equipment. It will work fine with your Garmin and your King. He probably has an Aspen ACU (Analog Converter Unit). If not they are very reasonable on the used market. I think you can do it for much less that what you mentioned.

As far as panel, this is your chance to get the left side cleaned up and much more ifr-friendly. There is a Mr. Lyle Hendricks that used to come on here (https://store-hendricksmfg-com.3dcartstores.com/About-Us_ep_7.html). I believe he owned an C model Mooney. But he has the capability of producing a new panel much more reasonably that most other options. https://store-hendricksmfg-com.3dcartstores.com/Custom-Instrument-Panel--Engineering-Deposit_p_52.html (look at all of the pictures on that page especially the FAQ picture.)

 

Here's a search of posts that mentioned him: https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=hendricks&quick=1

He used to make a great Garmin GPS496 mount for the Compass post. I bought a couple of them over the years. I still use one to mount a Dynon D3 mini-efis on my compass post.

Another option might be @Aerodon who also does panels.

If your Pathfinder autopilot works I'm not sure if that will interface, but the Aspen will handle most legacy autopilots. It should work since your Pathfinder doesn't have ALT hold and doesn't require attitude input (I think). The NAV and HDG should interface with the Aspen ACU.

Normally I hate to see someone tackle a big avionics project with used equipment(since labor is the same on new and used),  but this one shouldn't be that difficult if you have a shop that is open to the idea that you will be providing your own panel. If you decide to go this route, please, for the love of all that is good, flush mount the Aspen . . lol

Here comes the "while you're in there" thoughts: You might also consider this as an opportunity to do the right side as well and put an certified engine monitor that let's you get rid of the 55 year old instruments that will eventually fail. Here's an idea of what someone did, although not exactly what I would do. But it gives you an idea. https://mooneyspace.com/topic/28197-cgr-30-or-mvp-50-i-guess-install-time/#comment-475214

 

Thanks for all this info! I'll have to dig to see about the Pathfinder, since I wouldn't want to change anything if it stops working. It's run off the TC and interfaces with the Garmin currently, so I wonder if I would just keep the TC and AI around on the new panel if going this route.

And yeah, I know the right side is a mess, but who doesn't need an ADF and all those fancy instruments to make everything look that much more complicated and impressive...just in case?!

[Pinecone]

If you do with a 1000, you need to keep the TC or AI.  The 2000 allows you to run with only the Aspen for attitude.

My airplane came with a G-5 for backup AI.  I kept that as back up to my G3X in the new panel.

[AlexLev]

1 minute ago, Pinecone said:

Also, Aspen is designed to fit without panel mods.  Take out the AI and DG/HSI and install.  It fits in the two 3 1/8" holes.

Sarasota is selling refurbished 1000 Pro for $4000.   Aspen had some super deals on upgrading to Pro MAX and to 1500/2000/2500.  Even if you go all the way to 2500, the system is designed to fit in the 6 pack panel.

The EA-100 is the interface to legacy autopilots and gives you GPSS.  They are $2500 new.   It seems they are not the most robust units.  They work great, until they don't work.  With an Aspen setup, you don't use NAV mode on your autopilot, you engage GPSS on the Aspen.

My plane came with a 1000 Pro with Synthetic Vision and AOA.  I seriously thought about upgrading to 2000 Pro MAX, but decided to only do one panel upgrade and go all in.

Thanks! This one has a AOA and Synthetic Vision as well. He's pretty much offering it for free if I want it, which is really why I'm even considering this project (what can I say, I'm a fan of the steampunk feel of this panel).

Currently the single-axis A/P runs from the turn coordinator and 430W. It also does interface with the heading indicator for HDG mode, so yeah - I'm curious if it would continue to work with the Aspen. You're saying I'd need to purchase the EA-100 potentially and it's not that reliable?

In which case, maybe it's best to walk away while I still have a flying airplane

[Pinecone]

If the EA-100 fails, you just loose the steering to the autopilot.  Airplane is fully flyable.

I knew GPSS stopped working, but not sure what else.  I got an AHRS failure light and called the shop and they said, EA-100.  They lent me one for a couple of months until my avioincs upgrade project.

As mentioned in my second email, you will need to keep the TC or the AI as the 1000 requires a backup attitute.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

If the EA-100 fails, you just loose the steering to the autopilot.  Airplane is fully flyable.

I knew GPSS stopped working, but not sure what else.  I got an AHRS failure light and called the shop and they said, EA-100.  They lent me one for a couple of months until my avioincs upgrade project.

As mentioned in my second email, you will need to keep the TC or the AI as the 1000 requires a backup attitute.

The EA-100 is an Electronic Attitude, so you lose the AHRS when it fails, which is often - at least 4 times while I owned Aspens. Hence an attitude based autopilot disconnects when the EA-100 fails.

The GPSS is built in to the Aspen itself, so on @AlexLev's rate based autopilot it won't make any difference. With his current set-up he will not install an EA-100. The same would be true for an STec autopilot which is rate based (works off of the turn coordinator, not the attitude indicator). (An STec 30, 40, 50, 55, 55x would not be installed with an EA-100, just like an original Mooney Positive Control wouldn't either or Brittain wing leveler, etc)

He'll need to keep the TC for the autopilot and the attitude indicator for a backup on the legacy Aspen Pro 1000.

[vik]

The value of a used Aspen -> 0. 

First, an Aspen dealer will have to ship the unit to Aspen for recertification $$$. You won't be able to do it yourself. 

Second, the unit will have to be installed by an Aspen dealer $$$$.

After all that $$$$$ the cost of the unit itself is a small change.

I looked into this as well and asked few shops around about the costs. It was a hard pass.

Vik

 

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, vik said:

The value of a used Aspen -> 0. 

First, an Aspen dealer will have to ship the unit to Aspen for recertification $$$. You won't be able to do it yourself. 

Second, the unit will have to be installed by an Aspen dealer $$$$.

After all that $$$$$ the cost of the unit itself is a small change.

I looked into this as well and asked few shops around about the costs. It was a hard pass.

Vik

 

It really depends on the shop and whether you have a relationship with them. I installed three used Aspens in 2018 in a Bravo and the shop that had done a lot of work for me in the past, had done a lot of Aspens. They did everything including a lot of other work for well under $10,000. This included wiring an EA-100, ACU2 since I wanted some of those features for my Stormscope, that included labor for installing a used GTX345, hard wiring and interfacing an Aera 660 and panel mounting it, moving a lot of other things around, etc. (I had already previously done a phase one when I installed the Avidyne)