Max Zero Fuel Weight in a Mooney?

[Rick Junkin]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

What year M?  The 1990 POH shows "Gross Weight" and Max. Landing Weight.  I don't see a Takeoff Weight. 

 

Mine's an '89, 27-0019, with Service Bulletin M20-248 incorporated for the weight increase. You're correct in that POH MAN3500 uses that terminology for 3,200#, but it changed with incorporation of the SB to state a MTW of 3,368# and a MLW of 3,200. The TCDS contains the same words for MTW and MLW with incorporation of the SB. EDIT: The later revisions of the M20M POH also state just a MTW and MLW in the limitations section.

The M20R in the TCDS was issued at the increased MTW of 3,368# and MLW of 3,200#.

Cheers,
Rick

[Marc_B]

On 11/23/2023 at 10:02 PM, PeteMc said:

The answer you are looking for is put in your planes Max Weight.  

With ForeFlight, I went back to legacy Weight&Balance as it allows saving several items in a particular station (i.e. in the Baggage area I can save lines for canopy cover, chocks, MTB+shoes/helmet, road bike+shoes/helmet, etc.)  Then I can just check off what items I have instead of having to remember the specific weights of the items to add in a single station # load.  Regardless, the legacy W&B on ForeFlight has "Zero Fuel" under weight limits but mine says "None."  Certainly I can adjust this if I wanted, but I don't remember ever seeing a suggestion to put a weight here when I first set it up years ago.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Marc_B said:

With ForeFlight, I went back to legacy Weight&Balance

I like those pre-defined items and weights.  How do I specify that I want "legacy" Weight and Balance?

[Rick Junkin]

37 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I like those pre-defined items and weights.  How do I specify that I want "legacy" Weight and Balance?

The details are in the ForeFlight W&B document you should be able to access from within the ForeFlight documents tab. Reader’s Digest version: go to More > Accounts > ForeFlight Labs > Enhanced Weight & Balance and deselect Enhanced Weight & Balance.

Cheers,
Rick

 

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

incorporated for the weight increase.

Excellent!

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, Marc_B said:

With ForeFlight, I went back to legacy Weight&Balance as it allows saving several items in a particular station

Which version of FF do you have?  Not positive, but I think you can create the list of items on the Flights page in the W&B.  That's where I do it in my Performance Plus version.

 

[Marc_B]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

Which version of FF do you have?

Performance plus. I haven’t tried the enhanced W&B lately so they may have improved it. But when it first came out I liked the old style WAY better so I went back to original and haven’t changed since.

I emailed ForeFlight support at the time with pics of how I set mine up and let them know that the ability to click to add/subtract line items at a station was better for me than just having to select total weight for that station only. 

[Pinecone]

22 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

 

P.S. I grew up in Tactical Air Command in the USAF. In TAC the approach to regulations was, "If it doesn't explicitly say you can't, you can." In our sister command Strategic Air Command, the approach was, "If it doesn't explicitly say you can, you can't." Unfortunately for me I still carry that TAC mentality and it doesn't fit too well with the often vague nature of FAA regulations. While common sense won't always lead me to the legal answer, it has not failed to lead me to a safe answer.

 

Former TAC guy here also.

Hog Driver.

[Rick Junkin]

22 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Former TAC guy here also.

Hog Driver.

Rhino and Strike Eagle WSO. Oh the stories we have from back in the day!

[Pinecone]

1 minute ago, Rick Junkin said:

Rhino and Strike Eagle WSO. Oh the stories we have from back in the day!

Yes.

I may have to fly down to visit.  Some vaca and stories over a beverage.

[Rick Junkin]

1 minute ago, Pinecone said:

Yes.

I may have to fly down to visit.  Some vaca and stories over a beverage.

Just let me know when, I'll make room in the hangar.

[Rick Junkin]

15 hours ago, Marc_B said:

emailed ForeFlight support at the time with pics of how I set mine up and let them know that the ability to click to add/subtract line items at a station was better for me than just having to select total weight for that station only.

I did the same. They haven't re-implemented the line item capability yet. I have a Performance Plus subscription.

I DID find a work-around, but it's really cumbersome and I'm not using it anymore. You can enter each line item as it's own "station" with the weight as part of the station name and then change the station weight to zero when you don't have it on board. Having the weight in the station name tells you what to enter when it IS loaded. Very kludgy but it works.

Cheers,
Rick

[Pinecone]

22 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

Just let me know when, I'll make room in the hangar.

Sometime in the spring.  I will be able to show off the new panel.

[Jeff_S]

Just a quick follow-up to thank everyone for their input to this thread...I learned a lot of good info.  I believe that my and Rich Junkin's choice of MLW (his with reductions for some fuel weight) were designed to meet the same general goal of giving a basic foundation for all future calculations.  I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who really likes to have 10 gallons per side on landing!  But I also like the idea of just nullifying it in FF by using Max Weight, although I don't know what this looks like in the graphic.

I didn't know it was possible to go back to the legacy W&B system but I may look that up. Certainly FF has gotten more and more sophisticated with their attention to larger carrier and business planes, but so much of what they've added in the last few years is lost on us little guys.

Cheers!