Crosswind capabilities

[PT20J]

11 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

With L crosswind you are using rgt rudder.  If the plane turns tighter to the rigt, that would also assume greater rudder authority when bringing the nose rgt in a Left crosswind.  

I believe there is a mechanical reason why rgt turns on the ground are tighter than left turns.  In any case, the end result is that there is apparent greater rudder movement/rudder authority with the rgt rudder.  In airports like mine where there seems to be a 90 degree crosswind 1/2 of the time, perhaps it is best to enter the end giving a L crosswind.

John Breda

Well, let's check before we start another Mooney Myth. Here's a page from the TCDS for the M20F (I chose the F at random).

Really, if you think about it, why would Al, with all his aerodynamic prowess, design an airplane that asymmetrical crosswind capability? In my instructing experience, I've noticed that most pilots, when flying aircraft with side-by-side seating, prefer left crosswinds. It seems more comfortable slipping with the left wing down because of improved visibility to the side and over the nose. The airplane doesn't care. 

Skip

[PT20J]

26 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Agreed, the reason they turn tighter to the right on the ground is due to nosewheel limits NOT rudder.  Do and look at your nosewheel guys and you will see the limits marked and they is more movement to the right than the left.  
 

Andrew

Not sure about that. There's nothing in my M20J service manual about the steering being asymmetric. The rudder is supposed to be set with a 1 deg right offset when the rudder pedals are centered, which would actually give you 1 degree less travel to the right if you adjust the nose wheel to be centered when he rudder pedals are centered. The manual is unspecific about how to set the nose wheel steering, but I would think that it would be set for the same deflection left and right before hitting the rudder stops. Perhaps @M20Doc can tell us how he does it?

Skip

[PT20J]

41 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ive got a little pointer on my nose leg, and two marks on the horizontal bar that the tow bar goes into.  Each mark is differently spaced to the pointer.  Certainly when you manually turn the nosewheel with the tow bar, it will move to the right further than the left and correspond with the mark position as well.  They appear to hit a bar that stops the nosewheel moving past the marked points.  
 

 

I'm sure you are correct in your observation. The question is: How do you know your nose wheel steering is rigged correctly? The stops you are feeling are adjustable and the steering idler linkage is adjustable. From your description, it sounds to me like the idler needs adjusting to center the nose wheel.

[M20F-1968]

14 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Agreed, the reason they turn tighter to the right on the ground is due to nosewheel limits NOT rudder.  Do and look at your nosewheel guys and you will see the limits marked and they is more movement to the right than the left.  
 

Andrew

 

It was a difference is ground handling that caused me to ask the question.  I thought that since the nose gear turning limits seemed to be asymmetrical (that is only an observation from ground handling - I do not have the turning limit graphic on my airplane), that asymmetry may also be present in the rudder.  I can check this with travel boards as well.

John Breda

[PT20J]

23 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Agreed, that the linkages are adjustable, but the painted marks and arrow pointer are not.  (Well the paint “could” be adjusted.  The nosewheel is definitely centered, but its annual time soon, so ill get it checked.  

You mention that your limit marks are painted. There is a decal for that. Anyway, it's easy to check everything when it's up on jacks if you have the rudder travel board since everything starts with getting the rudder stops set correctly.

[Casey020]

I did a field test today in my ‘68 M20C. At the airport I was flying at, you have to back taxi in order to takeoff. I did a turn In both directions and did not notice any difference. Both left and right were the same turning radius, in my non-professional opinion. Both myself and my passenger did not notice any difference each time we back taxied to to takeoff. 

[carusoam]

Congrats Casey!

You are just getting a feel for the exactitude that comes out in some discussions around here...

 

the difference in U-turn radius’s is probably a few feet...

Which Can be important on a narrow runway, lined with tall snow banks... 

If it were that big of a difference... Al Mooney would have found a better way.

 

I’m glad you are getting a good feel for your bird.

 

Who did you bring with you?

Best regards,

-a-

[Ibra]

A 180 turn starting into wind may have a smaller radius (at least in the air), a 360 would be the same shape left/right, not a circle though...

Difference between left/right on ground may also relate to differential breaking, tire pressure, wind/ailerons, surface slope in addition to some limits on front wheel or rudder? 

A 1/10 inch difference when rigging main wheels vs front wheel may make few feets radius difference but that is hardly noticeable as PIC sits LHS they may get visually biased to one side, some may like to turn right on ground as they are more able to check left wing distances easily...

Edited March 1, 2020 by Ibra

[Guest]

4 hours ago, PT20J said:

Not sure about that. There's nothing in my M20J service manual about the steering being asymmetric. The rudder is supposed to be set with a 1 deg right offset when the rudder pedals are centered, which would actually give you 1 degree less travel to the right if you adjust the nose wheel to be centered when he rudder pedals are centered. The manual is unspecific about how to set the nose wheel steering, but I would think that it would be set for the same deflection left and right before hitting the rudder stops. Perhaps @M20Doc can tell us how he does it?

Skip

Skip,

You are correct that there are no instructions for setting the nose wheel steering stops that I have ever seen.  I set them to contact just before the rudder stops contact at the correct travel limits stated in the flight control section.  I’d sooner have the nose stop which are much stronger contact before the rudder stops.  Once the gear is retracted the nose stops are out of the equation.

Clarence

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Skip,

You are correct that there are no instructions for setting the nose wheel steering stops that I have ever seen.  I set them to contact just before the rudder stops contact at the correct travel limits stated in the flight control section.  I’d sooner have the nose stop which are much stronger contact before the rudder stops.  Once the gear is retracted the nose stops are out of the equation.

Clarence

Thanks,  Clarence. How do you center the nose wheel? Do you set it to be halfway between the stops?

Skip

[Casey020]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

Congrats Casey!

You are just getting a feel for the exactitude that comes out in some discussions around here...

 

the difference in U-turn radius’s is probably a few feet...

Which Can be important on a narrow runway, lined with tall snow banks... 

If it were that big of a difference... Al Mooney would have found a better way.

 

I’m glad you are getting a good feel for your bird.

 

Who did you bring with you?

Best regards,

-a-

I flew with the old owner of my plane. racking up some hours for now, then I'll solo it

[Guest]

5 hours ago, PT20J said:

Thanks,  Clarence. How do you center the nose wheel? Do you set it to be halfway between the stops?

Skip

While on jacks with the pedals locked together use the eyeball MK1, then taxi to confirm that pedals are even and airplane tracks straight.

Clarence