Z W

My recollection is the M20C would climb pretty comfortably to 10k and cruise there pretty well. To get to 12k, you had to accelerate for a while, then climb a few hundred feet, then repeat. It didn't want to sustain a climb. And once you were up there, true airspeed really decayed to where it was much slower. A big driver in switching to the turbo we have now was a trip across Texas and New Mexico on a hot day with moderate turbulence up to 12,500 feet in the C model. I couldn't get higher, and I thought my wife was going to open the door and jump out. The density altitude may well have been 15k or more. I took the C model to Sante Fe which you can access without getting too high, and Denver, but was never comfortable heading through true mountain areas. A few hundred feet per minute of downdraft and you're unable to climb at all. Not a good feeling when trying to cross a mountain pass. Turbo vs. non-turbo is a whole different topic with lots of threads here. I'm in the turbo camp. But, your cost numbers are a little outdated. I spent $13k overhauling a M20K turbo this year. Mine was completely worn out and they couldn't re-use any parts, so that's about a worst case scenario in 2025 numbers, but that's what it cost. Spread over 20 years and almost 1400 hours, it's not an unreasonable cost, but that's what it was. I should have done a preventative overhaul at 1,000 hours and it probably would have been much cheaper. I'd still rather have it than not.

The spot welded clamp part number for the TSIO-360-MB was 653337. It is now superseded by this new riveted clamp, 670105, in the Continental parts catalog. I tried to buy a new 653337 and they were also unavailable anywhere. I even put in an order on Air Power for one and they emailed and said it was discontinued and they weren't going to sell them any more and never charged me for it. This is what my old spot-welded V-band clamp looks like, for reference.

When I picked my plane up from annual at Maxwell last summer, I met with Don and Paul both who answered all of my questions and couldn't have been kinder or more responsive. I did a thorough inspection of the plane on their ramp which they encouraged. We had a discussion about how it's surprising how many pilots roll in, grab the keys, and blast off without even looking the plane over, sometimes at night or into IMC. We then had a discussion that occasionally my panel was throwing an alert for high fuel pressure during full power climbs over about 15,000 feet which was not a problem but annoying. Paul pulled one of their avionics guys out of the shop who adjusted the settings for the alert while I waited. This was after I had paid for the annual, and they didn't charge me any more. On the way home, my gear warning was sounding at much higher manifold pressure than it should (something like 22 inches). I called Don, asked if they had changed it, and he said no, but then took the time to look up and send me the parts diagram for where the switch was. I started looking at it (which required a mirror and flashlight) and found it attached by old, loose, and non-standard hardware that had clearly been there for years. Probably got bumped during annual. Got it all fixed and re-adjusted. Don didn't charge me anything for his help. Several months later, I had oil leaking out of my turbo and was having trouble sourcing a V-band clamp. I called and talked to Don who unfortunately didn't have any clamps to sell me, but was gracious with his time and expertise and didn't charge me anything for the conversation. Sorry you had a bad experience. Just relaying mine in the last 12 months. I've been very happy with them and am glad they're there help me keep my plane flying.

This is apparently what a $850 exhaust clamp looks like. Posting because when trying to figure out if I had a riveted clamp or not, I never was able to find a picture of one for my part number, though it was pretty obvious mine was spot welded once I got the cowling off and figured out where it was. At least it's a nice looking clamp and comes in a nice box... I hope you all get yours soon.

All sounds like a good plan. Since you mentioned wanting to get higher - My M20C really didn't like to climb much above 10,000 feet of density altitude. I was not comfortable doing a lot of mountain flying with it. The carbureted engine really notices the lack of air. It sounds like it would do better than your Cherokee 140, but if regular mountain trips are in your future, you might look for an M20E model, which I've heard with the extra 20 horsepower and fuel injection, performs much better at altitude. Sometimes they come up available for comparable money to the M20C's.

Just got an email from Air Power - my 670105 Clamp ordered 12/27/2024 shipped today. Their website currently shows 3 in stock. @Ragsf15e

My old one had been repaired with what looked like liquid firesleeve: https://www.abthermal.com/firesleeve-open-end-liquid-dip-paste-sealant-rtv-contamination-protection.html It might also have just been orange RTV. It didn't look great, but may have been functional for a while. It had been worked down into the cloth material and seemed to be a decent patch. Sorry to hear the boot has become hard to get. I did talk to the parts department directly at Mooney about it before I got mine. He told me they had some (4 I think?) in stock at the time but that I had to order it through a MSC. You could try calling them direct and see if you get a different answer today.

When I needed one a couple years ago, Maxwell was able to order it from Mooney. He direct shipped it to me, and then I put it in a box in the plane to take to him to install during annual. I'd recommend putting your order in now. My old one had been patched, re-patched, and added on to over the years. It's a unique 252 part and can't be obtained anywhere else.

I happened to be looking at my Savvy reports yesterday for the last 12 months. It says my oil temps are about average for M20Ks in their system at 163 dF. They definitely get a lot lower in the winter months. It has always given me the note that they "are not high enough to purge the engine of moisture." For whatever that's worth. I believe my probe is at the base of the oil cooler. This is a TSIO-360-MB2B with a G500Txi EIS. I'll verify the probe location next time I have the cowl off.

Have you tried increasing the manifold pressure and mixture at the same time you increase the prop to full forward? Or are you leaving manifold pressure low while trying to achieve max RPM? I think I would try that (simulated go-around power settings) at several different altitudes to see if it makes any difference, to help diagnose.

Didn't need to. Worked fine out of the box. I've had to bleed other hydraulic jacks in the past though and have never had a problem doing that either.

Update - Received the Franklin 500lb hydraulic lift from Harbor Freight. Tested it out today. Worked absolutely great. The angle it lifts the cowl at was perfect. Made reinstalling it alone probably easier than with a helper that's never done it before. I used a moving blanket on the table for padding. Not nearly as elegant or cool as the one @JimK made, but I'm not much of a woodworker. And another rolling table to have around the hangar may come in handy for other jobs. Link to the lift table: https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/lifts-cranes-stands/hydraulic-lifts-carts/500-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-70726.html

I happened to be flying today and checked. I was showing 16" MP at 1000 RPM idle. FYI.

Yes, related to a poor repair of the air filter housing, which had cracked.

Most 252's do 160-165 KTAS and 11-13 GPH at 12,000. Pinecone's seems to run 15 knots faster on 20% less fuel than everyone else's.

I believe this is the standard practice, using a shop vac to pressurize. At one point chasing a low MP issue we did this and the A&P said he found several leaks around the intake. We replaced all the intake connecting rubber hoses at a reasonable cost. It made no difference. All of yours should have been replaced 200 hours ago at overhaul though.

Does the 310 HP require excessive right rudder on takeoff, such that it feels unstable or dangerous on takeoff? Sometimes I like the idea of an extra 100HP over what I've got in a 262. But I've wondered how that really feels on essentially the same airframe. And at 38 GPH take off / climb and 20GPH in cruise I feel like I would often be flying around with range anxiety, or be effectively limited to 2-hour legs unless flying solo and light.

At this point, I'm just happy when any shop will agree to work on the plane. Currently been down three months getting a turbo rebuilt and then chasing oil leaks on reinstall. Last year, after waiting a year for a 430W to GTN650 install slot, that took about 2 months too. I redid the carpet myself after that just because I didn't want the plane to disappear into a shop again for a month for it. It's not pro level but good enough for who it's for and I got it done in a weekend. The maintenance situation is getting very bad and I think it will get worse before it gets better. Seems like every time I get the plane back, it's almost time for another annual which also somehow takes a month or more. The shops all are doing their best and have always had good reasons. They can't get enough good labor and it takes forever to get the parts they need. I've never complained about a single bill and bring the checkbook when I come to pick up the plane. Sorry that doesn't help you but thought I'd let you know you're not alone.

First thing I would do is apply Mouse Milk to the wastegate linkages. A sticking wastegate can cause lots of issues. I Mouse Milk mine every 25 hours at oil change time. While the lower cowl is off to do that, maybe also remove the air filter, reach in, and spin the turbo by hand, checking for abnormal axial and radial play and making sure it's not contacting the housing. Wouldn't expect that at 200 hours since overhaul, but it's a quick check. Looking for intake and exhaust leaks is a good idea. I'll also add - make sure your alternate air is not coming on, as it can cause this problem. Check for intake obstructions, which can cause the alternate air to come on. Make sure your intake plenum boot is fully drawn up onto the cowl flange and not bunched up and partially obstructing your intake. This is an important step every time the lower cowl goes back on that is sometimes missed, and as far as I know, unique to the 252 engines. You can quickly check that by removing the access door on the copilot side of the lower cowling. After that, if you're still having the problem, I would have the fuel system setup checked in accordance with SID97-3G (attached), now a part of Continental's M0 maintenance manual, by a Mooney-specific shop. I've had multiple non-Mooney shops fail to get this right. Maxwell is really good at it. What were your fuel pressure and fuel flow showing while you observed the decrease in MP? The fuel pump has an altitude compensating function that has to be set up correctly. I think of it this way - to make maximum power, your engine needs sufficient air, fuel, and spark. Taking spark out of the equation, you're missing either some fuel or some air. SID97-3G - Continuous Flow Fuel Injection Systems Adjustment Specs and Instructions.pdf

To clarify - the full nose up trim I described above is for an engine out situation. I do not use it for regular landings. I don't want it in that configuration if a go-around may be required.

I was also taught full nose up as a way to approximate best glide in the 172 trainer I learned in. It works pretty good in the Mooney too. Maybe a little slow, so slightly less than full nose up trim is ideal, but full nose up gets you close and then you can trim after that to exactly where you want it. The idea is the plane will naturally want to hold proper speed that way while you're looking out the window to pick your landing spot, running the engine restart checklist, making your mayday call, turning on your ELT, securing the cabin, and otherwise preparing for an emergency landing. So step 1 is full (or nearly full) nose up trim. It does however make it to where it requires less backpressure to stall the aircraft on short final, so you still have to watch your airspeed and not try to stretch your glide.

How does it attach to the oil cooler? Do you tape it in place? A picture would be great if you have one.

My oil temp also reads low, usually in the 140's. I've never blocked the oil cooler. When it's very cold outside, I run with the cowl flaps fully closed which helps keep the oil temp up. I read somewhere on here that if it's indicating 140 at the probe, it's still likely hot enough to vaporize moisture elsewhere in the engine, so not to worry. But I'm just repeating something I read on the internet there. You're running a lower power setting than I usually do - I go closer to 75%. Nothing wrong with your setting but you might try running more power for a while and see what it does to your oil temp. I think I'd be concerned at 109 degrees. The turbocharger needs 100 degrees minimum to function properly, according to its documentation, and you may be getting too close to that.

Thanks for the tip. I have one on order and will see how it does, with some padding and/or moving blankets. This is the one I ordered: https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/lifts-cranes-stands/hydraulic-lifts-carts/500-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-70726.html

This would be a good use case for the FS510 I had not considered. I don't travel often enough or for long enough to find much use for this, but others might. And I may someday hop in the plane to come home and be glad I have the option to tap "Yes" for updates and update the plane running on the ramp.