Becca

Someone convince jetdriven to stop buying cars and we can talk... We're up to 5 again for the household, and I only have 1 for myself, so...

Hahaa sorry I figured you thought I wasn't just any "he", but my husband who does tend to be the type of spender you describe. Jetdriven posted a picture of our panel a page back on this thread. For this exercise (really a crowd sourced game) the only mission is to define a IFR gps (for approaches) solution and determine what delta-benefit you get at each price point. I think the only other question is how long will we own - that's an unknown to us. Maybe 5 years maybe 15 more years, we won't be selling in the next couple years that's for sure. For what it's worth is seems the lowest price point is a used 430W and then everything delta is something more than that. I am also concerned about the aging nature of that unit and support. But am I 10 or 20 AMU concerned? I don't know, maybe?. Trying to scope the problem with this little game.

The original poster is a she. She has a husband who likes to shop and a third partner in ownership, all with equal votes on the checkbook Actually the shopper in the partnership declared it can't be done for less than 30 AMUs, which is why I crowd sourced this question. We all know it can be done with less and more so the real question is what do those delta AMUs buy you and is it worth it? Still haven't decided, none of us have. Thus this lively conversation. As you've mentioned the plane has some significant airframe and engine upgrades already (though the damage is not as bad as your estimate), so the buck has to stop somewhere, as it were. Ironically when we bought it we planned to do the panel first.

So our plane has got a new factory reman engine in Year 2; Shiny new paint in Year 6... finally time to bring the panel up to 2016. The minimum requirements are "must have IFR GPS approach capability" and panel is so old, assume nothing would be compatible with whatever we install (e.g. we'd need accompanying indicators, etc.). 2020 compliant with upgrade would be nice, but not necessary. Assume some DIY for panel prep, but professional install required. How would you meet this requirement for: 10 AMU's 20 AMU's 30 AMU's 40 AMU's

Yep, because its a very real term for boats or float planes, or anything operating on top of a fluid with surface tension. Its something people are familiar with and are like "well air is a fluid, so airplanes can do it too!", combined with the handful of planes that perform a similar operation because of weight issues in a climb and the need to burn off fuel, and you have a full fledge urban legend. Drawing parallels to a boat/float plane getting on the step, with flying through the air is like saying a submarine at 500 feet below the water's surface can get on "the step".

Here's the good thing about science and the laws of physics, they don't care who has what opinion.

Many many many shifts at all hours with the modern version of that head set. They fall off from behind most normal ear size and no matter what size earbud you wear, they hurt your ear. I might prefer my lightspeed zulu's for the airplane I admit I don't think I'd look good in a skinny black tie.. Sorry for the thread drift.

All good thoughts except one.. Never try to disguise something you want for yourself as a gift to your SO. We can see right through it.

I agree with this. The goal of pinch hitter is to find an airport, communicate because it might be needed, and slow the plane down so that everyone on board can walk away. Saving the hull shouldn't be a consideration.

By the way your wives are all way awesomer than me. The time commitment and expense associated with airplane ownership... No way I'd be agreeable to it if it wasn't my hobby too (actually my hobby mainly, Byron always had big shiny planes to fly for work, it was me getting sick of the area rental garbage that pushed us to purchase). just a word of advice that I didn't expect to be giving until I marry a fellow pilot. Don't try to instruct your spouse. Even when vastly more experienced - the power dynamics will never be comfortable or a good learning environment. You can tell when your spouse is annoyed, nervous, overwhelmed, condescending, etc, whatever, from body language and tone of voice, that you just don't get with a professional instructor. A good instructor is the key. Even better if you can find her female comrade to fly with - I have always cherished my time with my female aviation friends!

Byron is ok at it. he flares too high. And he spends a lot more time talking about it than actually doing it. But I suppose he'd survive in a pinch if he had to. Sometimes he will even read the checklist or listen for our call sign on the radio for me if he isn't napping. I guess compared to other flying spouses he's kind of proficient in aviation lingo, but he does weigh in at more than 100 lbs, think I should trade him in for a better model? Though he took a fair amount of convincing to take our first trip to Oshkosh.

May I recommend in addition to attending this wonderful seminar, you also get your partners some actual in-airplane flight instruction? The original pre-modified AOPA pinch hitter course included 3 hrs of flight instruction, and as I understand this from friends partners (some of whom went on to get their licenses) found this very valuable. I think the best way to do it is to have the instructor in the left seat and your partner in the right seat and you not in the airplane so you don't stress them out. A ground school class can only go so far. Every plane is different, unique radios, unique autopilot, other tools which may help them in an emergency, you want your partner to get the feel of you handling the airplane without you looking over their shoulder and them sensing your body language or stress (trust me, this happens). Jolie and Jan, suggestion, it would be awesome if you had a companion course for pilots on how to make flying easier on partners, how to use non-flying but interested regular passengers for CRM, etc.. I feel like some primary pilots could use some basics on this and some couples do this very successfully, while others don't. Just a suggestion.

For what it's worth, his chances of getting laid declines every time his wife catches him trolling on mooney space.

I have to agree, when Byron started talking about painting our airplane, my first comment was "let's make it look like Don's", both in quality but also design (its beautiful!!) Byron immediately made the trip to Mena to investigate the options. We were really disappointed to find out Mena has changed their stripping methods, and were just disappointed overall. Byron is talking up Hawk but they have not actually painted our airplane yet, we will report back when we get it. Likewise we are still iterating with Scheme Designers on the scheme, but its going to look FAST, I guarantee that.

My two cents: 1. I would not go to a mechanic that would not allow me to be present for any and all work. When interviewing mechanics ask how they feel about owner education while they are doing work -- to me its worth paying for a few hours extra of work if it means during that work they are explaining to me how my airplane works so next time something happens I am smarter about it. 2. Spilling oil in my hangar without cleaning it up or at least apologizing and saying it won't happen next time is unacceptable. 3. On the field/in your hangar oil change should be cheaper because mechanics who do this are often "fly by night" that do not have a permanent place of business, and therefore have lower overhead and are working out of their truck and may not even have the same full suite of tools or supplies or the insurance that a shop with a hangar would have (leaving to longer waits for repairs), don't consider this a convenience worth paying extra for. (Not commenting on quality of the mechanic here, just the resources of a mechanic operating out of his truck vs. a shop as a generality). Unfortunately, there aren't many women in aviation, even fewer that deal with mechanics, and its a profession in airplanes, boats, and cars, that aren't exactly known to be chick-friendly. And people wonder why there aren't more women in aviation? I had one noted Mooney mechanic, when I asked how long it would take to change an alternator, said "honey, how many stars are there in the sky?". (Ha, he never called my husband "honey"). He did not respond well when I said "I don't know, but since you have been working on Mooneys for 35 years, I figure you could give me an estimate that's at least within 1-2 hrs of reality for this common repair." For the record, the answer is, 6 hours for him to screw it up, charge us $600, have it fail on its next flight, and then 2 hrs for us to do it ourselves again with a new alternator under the supervision of a different mechanic. For those of us maybe more prone to being ripped off then the so-called mechanical-geniuses on this forum, having a place to compare prices and extent of work like Mooney space is invaluable as a consumer resource, nothing wrong with asking. And yes, even as a righty-tighty-lefty-loosey type you can change the oil. Its literally like plug a hose to a drain and drain the oil, then refill oil just like adding the oil. It doesn't even require the use of a tool. The filter is a little more of a challenge, you'll have to get someone to teach you to use a wrench and safety wire, but if you can fly the plane you can master it with limited instruction -- maybe easier because small hands get in small Mooney-spaces better than big hands. Also, on the cowling, a step ladder is the solution and then just lift it straight up slowly and then over and behind you. (I am 5'6", and I definitely prefer using two people to remove the cowling, but its possible if you have to do it yourself).

I know the thread has drifted a bit since the original.. and contains all the expected nonsense from the Neanderthal pilot population. Having done a lot of research on buying a plane and experience with prior club-level ownership, I believe the standard amount to budget for an oil change is $250 including the oil and filter. Lots of shops charge a fixed fee for services like an oil and filter change, and they don't have some sort of weird variable hourly price (oh, it took Bob 1 hr, but John 3 hrs). The oil and filter costs us about $75 each oil change. Don't assume your mechanic is examining your engine while doing the oil change -- a good mechanic should, but that is absolutely not a service you are paying for. You should watch an oil change once or twice and see how your mechanic does it - including if he is really taking the time to inspect the engine. Would be eye opening I think. FWIW, I learned to change the oil and spark plugs in an C-150 with basically no prior mechanical experience at all (I didn't even know how to use a torque wrench) when I was 18 years old. Its not much harder at 35 years old doing it on our Mooney, though since dear jetdriven is always tinkering on our airplane, I have a built-in mechanic. Doing it yourself is a good way to save money. It takes about an hour. A good time to do it is just set it to draining right after you fly (20 min), and then when you come back to fly again, just finish the job (another 30 minutes including changing the filter). Also, FWIW, you can't use your non-pilot husband to change your oil. Its one of the privileges you have with your pilots license (and yes, you even have to fill it out in the engine log and sign your name), a non-pilot can't change the oil.

I did indeed visit VKX. As I said, liked the place, wish I could afford it. The folks I talked to based there and training there had nothing but good to say about it. I have no use for a gun range so I did not confirm its presence, but I trusted the two independent people who both mentioned the land there is used for that purpose. The web site, I think we can all agree, is a bit crazy. But, thank you for reminding me why I don't visit mooneyspace much any more. http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/runway_incursions/ What is a Runway Incursion? Any occurrence at an aerodrome involving the incorrect presence of an aircraft, vehicle or person on the protected area of a surface designated for the landing and take off of aircraft.

I am not implying anything other than it is a colorful airport which you can easily tell by reviewing the animated gifs on its web site and stating what I know, that it shares land with a gun range. Met two pilots this summer who used it for both purposes so I am pretty confident I am correct in the dual use (the guy we partner in our airplane with is an avid marksman/gun collector, he would probably also find such dual use convenient, even if I find it a little weird). As I understand the owner also personally controls FRZ pin codes for people who have permission to use the airport, so the laid back part is a little bit of a facade. I also worked with someone who was doing his flight training there - what a PITA to do flight training in the FRZ, I might add, but it appears the flight schools there are thriving regardless. We certainly considered it as a place to base our airplane, asked about a hangar waiting list and got referred to an ebay auction and the intel from several locals that the last few ebay auctions for hangars went for $1000/month (people with small airplanes are paying this or are they being used for other purposes? Hard to tell remotely). But it is convenient. Also, please don't cross the runway at any airport, on foot, pretty much ever.

Learned a bit about this colorful airport while I was in DC this summer (FWIW we were temporarily subletting at KGAI - we liked it there -- there were lots of young people, a thriving flight school, easy to get to even with public transit, though it did require a bus transfer). Sounds Potomac is run by a real character and I guess the airport shares the land with a gun range? He now leases hangars via an ebay auction and is apparently getting $1000/month or more by doing it this way. Seems like an interesting crowd...

So we've done only a handful of border crossings but we have not stuck the sticker on the window at all (once from Bahamas, three times from Canada over the last several years). Only one were we asked for it and we showed it to them (still on the paper it arrived on). Our thought is we'd stick it on the window if CBP asks us too, otherwise, we'd like to avoid sticking stickers on the window...

Any advice on things to do and see?

Yeah, open to ideas. We are actually staying in-the-District, but will have a car, will travel. A sublet would work too since its such a short time.

Oshkosh & Kingston... probably yes to one or both, but TBD based on Byron's work schedule.

Byron (jetdriven) and I are going to be temporarily living in DC this summer. We've worked out an arrangement with our partner to bring the plane up there for about 4-6 weeks (centered in July is the plan right now) so we can explore the northeast in our limited time off.... what we really need is advice or leads on where to store the airplane for a reasonable price. Must be hangared! Thanks for any help or ideas! also, looking for ideas for weekend trips (I really want to do Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket... )...

Hurricane season probably adds an element of unpredictibility. The sea breeze and water probably makes summer bearable, so otherwise...