jetdriven

+5. Thanks, George, thats why i lurk on her and post often. Critical thinking and exploring ideas is the best way to seek the truth.. Quote: GeorgePerry Byron it makes me happy to know that you and I can agree on this, even if we differ on other topics. The Variety of well thought out cogent opinions is why I like this forum.

good thing i don't fly a twin Mooney that sat for 2-3 years! Quote: WardHolbrook your re-plowing ground that's been covered more than a few times. Yep bladders do ad 30 lbs to you empty wt. but that's the only drawback. I'd suggest using the search funtion to see why the rest of your argument doesn't hold up. It's all been said before. Bottom line is what I stated earlier: Owners who've had O&N's for decades have not encountered any of these mythical issues. The people who poo-poo bladders are the people who don't have them.

Sure, I'm not an A&P but I have one that supervises me. I also have this knack for fixing things once. Bladders are no more dangerous than your Dyson vacuum cleaner. Even if they "burst" they fill the wet wing space occipied by your former tanks.. Maybe I wil get myself a dental camera and some composite filling to repair my own tooth. I want it repaired to lasrt 19 years and counting. I'm still waiting to hear complaints about bladders from real bladder owners, not people pontificating about hypothesis and theory about bladders. Gravity is also just a theory after all, too. Quote: allsmiles Frankly, some things are best left to professionals. The factory didn't use bladders for some very good reasons. It is not the correct way to solve the problem. It's merely a half ass way to avoid or bypass a professional strip and or reseal. Tank strip and reseal is highly specialized and delicate work that demands certain skills and attention to detail. I would go to a professional who can do it right and be done with it. It would be to your benefit to get a couple more opinions and references from professionals who actually specialize on this. Not a plain A&P. If you need a knee replacement you go to a knee replacement specialist and not a general practitioner right? Same logic should apply here imo. Consider the fact that with sealed tanks a leak will start as a very small seap which gives ample time to evaluate and address. A bladder can burst or a connection can come loose spilling all the fuel at once.

Quote: gregwatts Another reason not to fly LOP or run your tanks dry.......you can't measure your fuel while it is leaking! Thank you for making my points.

Never in the history of mankind has a group of individuals made more fuss over 33 lbs (bladders) or 12 knots (M20F vs. J)

Obviously goes without saying, if you want Monroy extended range tanks, or have a Rocket with extended tanks, a factory 201 with extended tanks (201ER?), or a long-body Mooney, bladders will not work for you. These are strictly a 64 gallon option. Of course, the 54 gallons baldders and LOP is equivalent to 64 gallons and ROP, but this is another subject. I just had to say it. I do miss the 10 gallons. We can still go ~650-700 NM in still air. A few more if willing to fly at Carson speed.

here is what another Moooney'er replied to when I asked him why he chose a reseal rather than putting bladders in his M20C. I think he may be exaggerating on both ends, but, comments? Well, for me it was not $8000. It was $6000.00. Also, my own personal bladder will not let me fly as long as the fuel bladders would allow me to. Plus, with a useful load of 1008 lbs. I really cannot afford the loss of useful load that the bladders would cause. According to the O&N website (Mooney Bladder manufacturer), the price does not include installation so the 64 gal option is $7750 and then you have to add 50 hours of labor according to their site and of course that is if all goes perfectly. So lets say they charge $65.00 an hour you are now looking at over $10,000 (Quite a bit higher than the reseal). I have a 5 year warranty and solid tanks for $6000 (this price included labor, materials, etc...). All that made it an easy decision for me.

Our bladders are 19 years old and have had no work done to them. Another pilot on here has 20 year old bladders. My doctor has a 1974 V-35B bonanza and finally had to have a bladder overhauled for a leak last year. In fact, I'd love to hear from ANYONE who has had any issues with the O&N bladders for a Mooney. I sure hear about fuel leaks, and reseal and repatch jobs which forever need more work. Just keeping it balanced. Quote: Parker_Woodruff Bladders wear out, too. Get it resealed by someone who has a good process. Willmar, Don Maxwell, etc...

if oil consumption stabilized the break in of cylinders is pretty much done. If you have been flying it hard, that might have only taken 4 hours.

They have impressive "ramp appeal" (see "sexy" in some other threads) but are 20 knots slower that a 201 with the same engine.

I think you have a point there! I would also add that many lies on cable "news" are either immediately preceeded or followed with "we just don't know".

AFAIK they are just plain better in all categories than cost. They are 1950s technology rather than 1910s. But amortized over 2000 hours they are cheaper. That and A&P shops cannot charge you to clean plugs in a blast machine because you dont do that. It ruins them. Id love to see an article saying massives are better.

Nobody ever flies there anymore. The place is too crowded. Quote: Becca Cool...it's flyboy's home drome, and a nice nice airport, which is now towered.

Autolite (now Tempest) fine wires. Yes the literature says Iridium. Iridium and platinum do not erode as fast as steel does, so the spark plug gap remains constant for longer. http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=c7d0dd71-691c-4bcf-a6fc-21218807dfba

I know that voltemter didnt replacd the certified instrument. The voltmeter is in addition to the Ammeter (which sucks and provides no useful informartion) I think rules change too slowly for technology. For example, I have a friend with an RV-8. 3 GPS's. autopilot. dual EFIS. you name it. My 201 has a Mitchell atttude indicator and DG, and a Century IIB autopilot. I cannot install the Dynon D10A EFIS in my certified aircraft even if I have all the other required instruments. The difference between what I have ands that is the difference between the horse and buggy and the space shuttle. To be fair, even so, certified aircraft are a hell of a lot safer than experimentals. The statistics bear that out.SO i digress while grumbling. I have a plug in 12V voltmeter that goes in a cigarette lighter I fly with. here The question have for Skybrd is how did he wire it to ther ship's electrical system and permanently mount it without approved data. That is the catch-all. Thats the stuff inspectors love to see.

Ross, I am a devoted worshipper of yuor posts regarding aircraft but can you post a link where lenders were required to fill a quota of low income loans and such for the government? All I can find is that the government was willing to buy these crappy loans but Wells Fargo did not have to originate them. I cannot find where they were required to. Can you explain Countrywide? They started up it seems specifically to originate predatory loans. No mention of the government in this article, but an 8B settlement for predatory lending. http://www.econ.la/special_coverage/article_sc/2008_1006_countrywide_settled.html http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/09/countrywide-subprime-mortgage-whistleblower http://motherjones.com/politics/2008/03/subprime-lendings-smartest-guys-room some more reading. Lots of greed, not so much in federal orders to issue bad loans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_policies_and_the_subprime_mortgage_crisis Also, have you read "The Big Short"? Quote: Shadrach There is a lot more to the story that the CRA Act (passed in 1977, stregthened under Clinton, weakened under Bush during which much of the housing bubble occured). A quick google search shows that 50% of subprime loans were offered by banks that weren't even covered by the CRA or regulated by it in any way. The other 50% may have been banks that were regulated by CRA, but might not have been in neighbhorhoods covered by CRA, the statistics weren't as clear there. But overall economic thought is it seems the CRA had little to do with the subprime mess - but you can make up your own mind, there's only a few million references when you google "CRA subprime mortgage" and you skip the punditry stories and just read the published articles from universities and those from leading financial reporting sources. Also, consider the current litigation against Bank of America, Countrywide, Washington Mutual and Wells Fargo that have a great deal of evidence that minorities were steered to subprime loans that white people with the same financial standings had access to regular loans for. I am trying to really really ignore Fantom's comment "And we all know who were getting those handouts loans..." what he is trying to imply here, and I am going to assume that any implicit racism in this statement is unintentional. The whole melt down was a series of really bad choices, not just by people that chose to take bad loans (or were enticed to as the only solution for housing in growingly unaffordable markets), but by the ratings agencies and banks who packed bad loans together in CDOs, called them "good" once they got combined together, and then sold them to other banks who were left out in the cold and needing a bailout.

Interesting offshoot, from the offshoot. You know up until the 1930s most every american city had streetcars. Look at old city photos. GM and others bought up over 1000 streetcar lines and converted them to (GM) buses. Later, many of these lines were abandoned when no longer profitable, which resulted in no public transportation options where there one were. Capitalism unbridled. They have "A right to make a profit" regardless who suffers. Which is where regulation for the public good comes in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_streetcar_scandal

You can do a search but the fine wires are better in every measurable category but cost. But, hey, yours are free. here are some benefits: last 2000 hours (vs 400-1000 hours for massives) rarely require regapping if at all harder to foul with lead fires better in a cylinder that uses oil. able to provide a more open spark, which in theory allows you to run leaner before roughness. Ross and others have countered that fresh massives are similar, so YMMV. RAM aircraft claims a .02% improvement in BSFC (2% more efficient) http://www.ramaircraft.com/Maintenance-Tips/Spark%20Plugs-Fine-Wire-vs-Massive.htm http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/spark_plugs_198595-1.html If you run LOP these benefits are more important. We installed a fresh set some 75 hours ago and it made a night and day difference from worn out massive plugs.

The "New deal" was all to help the "forgotten man". Perhaps we have forgotten about the forgotten man. I wasnt arround then but the economy was in the ditch and no way was it moving. Keynsian economists believe that it stays i the ditch until something stimulates it to move. It was universally agreed to be a great thing until the last year or two. Now we have working class people siding with the wealthy ruling class, against rules that protect the working class. It reminds me of slaves taking up arms against the North during the Civil War. Still waiting on those bread crumbs? Here is where it "went south": Edited: from here Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), 1933: effort to modernize very poor region (most of Tennessee), centered on dams that generated electricity on the Tennessee River; still exists Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) insures bank deposits and supervises state banks; still exists Glass–Steagall Act regulates investment banking; repealed 1999 Securities Act of 1933, created the SEC, 1933: codified standards for sale and purchase of stock, required awareness of investments to be accurately disclosed; still exists Social Security Act (SSA), 1935: provided financial assistance to: elderly, handicapped, paid for by employee and employer payroll contributions; required 7 years contributions, so first payouts were in 1942; still exists National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) / Wagner Act, 1935: set up National Labor Relations Board to supervise labor-management relations; In the 1930s, it strongly favored labor unions. Modified by the Taft-Hartley Act (1947); still exists Federal Crop Insurance Corporation (FCIC), 1938: Insures crops and livestock against loss of production or revenue. Was restructured during the creation of the Risk Management Agency in 1996 but continues to exist. Fair Labor Standards Act 1938: established a maximum normal work week of 44 hours and a minimum wage of 40 cents/hour and outlawed most forms of child labor; still exists, hours have been lowered to 40 hours over the years. Rural Electrification Administration, (REA)one of the federal executive departments of the United States government charged with providing public utilities (electricity, telephone, water, sewer) to rural areas in the U.S. via public-private partnerships. still exists. Im not saying these programs are perfect or free from corruption or waste. I am of the mindset we are better with them than without them. But I have been labeled as 'sick" so you may see ths differently depending on whether you make <100K a year or currently unemployed. In this country, you are only as good as your last envelope. Maybe the new thinkers got it right. Perhaps we should abolish all these programs. GE is tired of paying for them. Their taxes are too high and they cannot create jobs. Quote: Parker_Woodruff I actually am looking back past Bush, past Clinton....all the way to about 1913. Of course the "New Deal" is where things really went south.

Quote: Parker_Woodruff Compromising is what got us into this mess. When you compromise, you spend too much money. Whaddoya know... 14.X Trillion in nat'l debt.

Hey I thought you were a LOP man? Quote: Shadrach Just landed in St Simons Island GA this afternoon. KFDK to KSSI, 533nm in 3:20, under 40 gals burned. Perfect day!

GE is included, (#3). You and I paid more taxes than 7 out of these ten companies. Can you not see a huge problem with that? Immelt is Obama's "Jobs Czar". I do have a problem with that. Same old "cut taxes" so we can be more profitable and create jobs. You know, thats what they say. That's an argument I cannot follow. You would think with over 80 Billion in cash they could do that already. http://ycharts.com/companies/GE/cash_and_equivalents Quote: alex Your favorite news source forgot to include GE which paid nothing in taxes. But really, If Obama doesn't mind it why should you?. After all isn't Jeff Immelt GE's CEO, and isn't he some kind of jobs guru, advisor or czar for the current capable administration? I go back to my past observation. You seem to give very loud lip service to the poor but it seems to me you are hoarding your wealth. Give up the races, the Mooney and the money and then you will have everyones attention. By the way I am only 38 and bought my first plane 10 years ago, without a government subsidy!

Yes, inspected and signed off by an A&P / IA. And they are all aircraft parts. I thought a TSO, PMA, or some other approved data was required to install parts into an aircraft. So how did you do it?

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This was a 1961 Cessna 210. NO fuel totalizer. Fuel flow meter in PSI. No "both" fuel selector. Fuel guages in pounds and goes to zero at half tanks anyways. These planes csn burn 25 GPH or 13, it depends on how it is being run. Point is I siwtched to that tank expecting 10 gallons in it and was surprised when it ran dry 2 minutes later. I knew then the other tank did not have 1/2 what I thought it had left.