Seth

TKS just was not in the cards for this upgrade - thought it would have been nice. Today I took the plane out for another 2.1 hours. I was able to replace a fuse for the interior cabin lights (they didn't work when I triend them on the flight home - good thing for flashlights - the panel lights worked just fine). Also, had my smoothest landing in the Missile today. I've run it at high power for the break in, and 180+ knots sure is nice! I'm looking forward to getting it up to 8000 or so and leaning out for a better fuel burn. It's time for the first oil change and to check the filter to ensure it doesn't reveal anything negative. I'll have that done this week.

I saw a Commander in the shop once and was astounded by the size of the cabin compared to the engine mount. We really do pack our engines tightly in the Mooney - but the speed is great. I flew today from GAI to GED for lunch with an aunt of mine to show her the new plane. I ran into an Ovation driver at GED and watched another Mooney depart - it was nice to see three Mooney's there.

Fellow Mooneyspacers - please cease the political banter. A joke or two here or there is fine, or maybe we'll create another forum for it, but we've done a very good job of keeping MooneySpace clean and clear of politics for years now - let's keep it that way. I vote for airplane talk. Take care, and for those of you out there, have an easy fast. -Seth

When I owned my former 1967 M20F, I had made a list of potential modifications to perform in time (part of the reason I purchased the Missile). One of those modificiations would have been to put in bay windows before the paint job. I always went back and forth as to simply paint it with the same windows, or to put in the bay windows first. After flying the Missile with the bay windows (long windows in the back ala 201 style) without a doubt do it if you are thinking about it. Curb appeal, I kind of like the three window format of the F model. However, from the inside, the view for passengers, or from what I can tell as the pilot when looking over my shoulder is absolutely worth it. My opinion is when an F owner replaces windows, for whatever reason (scratches, pre-paint, tint, etc . . . ) put in the 201 style bay windows. You and your passengers will love the difference. George - I know you did this. I forget if you did it yourself or had a shop do it with you. Others who have made this modification, what is the range of cost? Thanks, and remember, this is just my opinion, but after flying with these windows, I would have made that mod. It does make a difference, shows a potnetial buyer you have upgraded your aircraft, and it really is a mod you'll use every flight. -Seth

Mike- Don't forget to look at the local listings at local airports near you (the wall in the pilots lounge) and also speak to local sources of influence who know about a guy who is thinking about selling his plane - some of the good ones are never listed online. Take care, -Seth

My former 1967 F model had bladders when I purchased it in 2008. The tanks were the 54 bladder system, so I lost 10 gallons of fuel, but gained it in useful weight when the tanks were full. A few times I did wish I could push a few minute further but had to land - 64 gallons are a perfect combo for the 200 HP Mooney aircraft in my opinon. The new to me 83 Missile does not have bladders, but it does have long range tanks - 98 gallons total! However, it is a heavier airplane, and I worry about potential leaks and reseal. In the logs, it shows that a patch was perfomed in one of the 17 gallon extended tanks in the wing last year. So, I know most likely there will be a reseal in the next 10 years. I never had a problem with the bladders in the F, and the useful load was still very good - 1017 lbs. Never a hint of water in the tanks, and I do like the gas cap used as part of the bladder STC. I have nothing but good things to say about bladdres. My bladders were installed in the early to mid 90s I think - but I don't have the logs or the plane anymore to verify. The Missile I don't think can use bladders since I have the extended fuel tanks, so I can lose capacity, or reseal when the time comes in the new bird - hopefully it will be a long time. Choosing bladders won't be a bad decision, just a prefereance. I really liked my former plane and the bladders installed. Take care, -Seth

Whenever I drive anywhere near the airport, I try to stop by, just to say hello to my Mooney - I'll tell you, when between planes I didn't stop by the hanger as much, and I did miss it. Even if you don't take her flying, simply swinging by to say hello, and doing the little things, puts a smile on your face. Just sitting in a chair next to your plane watching the other planes fly - very relaxing. I hope you work out a way to keep your Mooney. -Seth

Quote: DonMuncy This may be a little off topic, but may be of some use to some of you if you are faced with having to move your plane slightly uphill with no help. I discovered that if you have a couple of 2x4 blocks, you can put one in front of each main. Then adjust your tow bar to angle the plane one direction. Go out to the end of the other wing and shove it backwards a few feet. Walk you way down the wing toward the wheel, keeping pressure to keep it from rolling toward you. Kick the block back to chock the wheel. Readjust the tow bar to angle the other direction. Go to the other wing tip and repeat. Pushing on the end of the wing gives you a lot more leverage than you can put pushing on the prop. This yawing is slow and not fun at all, but it saved me from having to go look for someone to help on a few occasions. It will also encourage you to buy or build a power tow. Don

After my first few landings in the Missile, I would not land on grass. That may change in time, but with the gear doors I looked at very closely on the pre-flight, the weight of the engine up front, and overhuall heavy aspect of the airplane, which in turn could hurt the fuel tanks wth twisting and a non smooth surface, I would NOT land on grass at this time in the Missile. I'd buy a C-182, C-172, maybe a 170 or a T-6 for that! -Seth

Flew the Missile home on Tuesday. What a trip! Left FCM - Made a precautionary stop (to check oil, take on a little fuel for safety) halfwayish - Fort Wayne - FWA and then continued home to GAI. I could have flown direct in about 4 hours 18 minutes. More observations to come later, but here are is a list: 1. The Missile is indeed a heavier airplane to the M20F in all respects. 2. It is FAST 3. During the break in, the GPH rate is high 4. Autopilots assist workload like you would not believe. 5. This is one heck of a hotrod – I now get what the Missile and probably Rocket people talk about. 6. The six cylinder IO-550 is indeed smoother running than even a smooth running 4 cylinder 360. 7. I see why Mooney went and built the Ovation. This airplane is amazing performance wise, it is heavier by all respects compared to my former M20F, and boy do I need to give LOP ops a try in about 50 hours once I'm comfy with the airplane. I do have Gami's, so that should make it possible as long as the engine is smooth. I can't wait to finish the engine break in (well on it's way) so I can take her up to seven to nine thousand feet and see what she can really do. The trip home was fast - 175 - 190 knots groundspeed often, and at one point over 200 knots. I flew the trip home between 4 and 6 thousand feed - mainly 4 to 5. I'm flying again later today. Oil consumption is already dropping. Ran into another Mooneyspacer while at BBB talking with the A&P I used for the prebuy and engine install. That was pretty neat. For the install and work, I hired Jason Doscher – he used to manage the Wilmar shop for Bruce Jaeger. He's a good, honest A&P and will work with you the right way - I recommend his services. Bruce Jaeger I also recommend for any training. Tim Lundquist I recommend if you are looking to buy or sell your Mooney (or other aircraft). He made sure this deal happened and has followed up with me even after purchase. These three made a great team for the purchase, pre-buy, work, and training. PM me any time for their contact information. Back to Auto Pilots - I did not have one in my M20F - well, I did - the PC wing leveler. And I flew a lot of IFR, a lot of long Cross Country flights and even the circling of the USA in 2010. From DC to NC to TX to CA to OR to MT to MN and back. I've had the plane to FL, MN, OH, TX many times. For all these flights I hand flew the plane, hand flew the instrument approaches, to minimums a few times. The AP takes a huge workload off and allows you to monitor and manage as opposed to primarily flying and correcting consistently without the step back overview. I will still hand fly approaches from time to time to keep my hand flying skills up, but boy does an auto pilot decrease the workload. If you are ever thinking of getting one - don't think twice - DO IT. I'll have more thoughts about my Missile up in a the next few days - also watch out for a thread about a Maryland/VA/DE/PA/WV get together for the mid-atlantic Mooney's. I'll set something up at an airport sometime in the next month on a weekend for lunch. Take care, -Seth

Quote: 74657 That is not a mirror image. Oil fill is on the left side.

Engine Pic - Looking forward to this weekend. Question, is the oil fill area on the Missile engine on the left side? Am I looking at a mirror image of this picture? -Seth

FINALLY! I'm heading to MN on Sunday afternoon, training Monday, and flying 1165N back to Maryland on Tuesday. It has been a long saga, but the engine is overhauled and should be installed today or tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for the suggestios in the break in thread. I'll post some pictures of the updated panel and more information about the flight back and break in process next week. Question: The company that overhauled the engine gave a 5 week timeframe, and then ended up delivering it after 9 weeks with no information as to why it was late, and no extra work was needed. Since it was late, I flew commerical back and forth to Minnesota for a meeting after the 5 week period, and rented the Arrow for a wedding two weeks ago, I'm planning to ask for a discount due to the late delivery (the A&P suggesetd this as it made him look bad that they gave him a timeframe that he gave me and then it was month late). Has anyone had any success with this? Is it even worth pursuing? I do not wish any bad blood, as I want to ensure I'll get proper service should I need assistance with any warrenty issues, but they did overpromise and underdeliever time wise. I've always been taught UPOD - Under Promise - Over Deliver. Take care, -Seth

Quote: 74657 13 point something isnt bad @ 180kts! Parker - When I took ownership of 8DF the fuel flow on the roll was only 24.5 or so and it got hot quick. It likes 28. Rocket recommended 27-29gph. The previous owner used to "kick on the boost pump @ 400agl" to keep the engine cool. Explains why there were 4 cracked cylinder heads when we overhauled the engine...... Knowing that my CHT probes read 25F hotter than actual I still try to keep the CHT's @ 400F Max on the climb.

Quote: FoxMike Michael, A four blade MT is STCed to the TLS. It was done in Europe but can be installed on US airplanes. The advantages are shorter TO distance, less noise, little better climb. Disadvantages less cruise, more maintenance cost. One of the folks at Mooney told me they tried one on a factory TLS and were not impressed. If you have known ice you would lose that certification unless you wanted to do the testing. The Acclaim would require a complete a do over of testing. What you have now is pretty good and more blades is not going to help much unless you want shorter TO distance. Walt

The speed brakes in the 1967 M20F were manual right next to the trim wheel between the seats on the floor. The new Missile does not have speed brakes. So it was similar to the manual Johnson bar for operation - just check it with a head twist to ensure they are stowed, as since you manuall set them, you may not retract them all the way. Even when the manual speed brakes are extended partially they disrupt airflow and increase drag. -Seth

Yes, one short flight is prudent and planned - I agree with that 100%. Check for oil leaks. The Missile does not have cowl flaps. I had an JPI EDM 830 installed and will watch the temps very closely. First long flight will be from MN to MD, so that should account for qutie a bit of the initial break in period. That first long flight will be after at least an hour to an hour and a half flight with Bruce Jaeger for familiarizaztion purposes with the new systems and procedrues. Take care, -Seth

"I enjoy knowing you have formulated deep insights of Mooney comfort and handling from not one, but two different girl friends. I sense Seth, the only pig you have flown with.......IS an Arrow....." You crack me up. Looking forward to showing you the Missile when it's finally ready. One more thing about this particular Piper Arrow - It was geared up by an instructor a few years back (yes with a student - and now the instructor does indeed work for the FAA), and hands off, it tended to roll off to the left and then eventually down. So, even though I hand flew my 1967 M20F, it had a winge leveler and would fly straight and true - I could hand fly it hands off. With the Arrow, we're talking 6.7 hours of pressure on the controls making sure it went straight - I would not purchase a plane that did not fly straight and true hands off. -Seth

I had this taken care of during an annual on my 67 M20F by the Freeway MSC. Feel free to give them a call. The shop number is 301-262-6544 and the website is www.freewayaviation.com. They are located at W00. Take care, -Seth

In 2009 during a trip to the North, I was on final at chicago executive airport (talk about busy airspace!), and they asked me to expedite as I had a King Air on a three mile final behind me. I kept my speed up and then put out the speed brakes to slow down just before landing. After the turn off the taxi way, I realized they were still depoloyed (even though I had already raised my flaps). That's the only time I've landed with the speed brakes deployed. I do not plan, nor have I, made a normal habit of it. -Seth

Last weekend I had planned to make my first true use of the new Missile and fly to Knoxville, TN from the DC area for a wedding. That did not occur. The engine overhaul was not completed on time. The Missile is still sitting up in Minnesota. I cannot wait to get my plane down to Maryland. I was left with the following options: 1. Drive 8-10 hours each way 2. Airlines 3. Rent a plane So I got checked out in a Piper Arrow PA28R-200 and flew it 6.7 hours last weekend. My former 67F would have been faster, and the Missile would have been even better, but, the Arrow was okay. I could have taken a 172, but I figured for the price and speed, the Arrow made more sense (I would have gotten more hours, but time is important, plus bathroom breaks, girlfriend on board, flying with the wheels not sticking out in the wind . I would have taken a 182, as that way I could save the expense of the checkout flight (I'm already checked out in one) but the two airports I tend to fly out of do not have one on the line anymore (the one I used to fly no longer exists - it crashed due to engine failure for an undetermined reason in high turbulance - both occupants survived the forced landing) Also, when all was said and done, at the block rental rate, once you consider airport parking fees and long taxi rides or a rental car, and two airline tickets, it was nearly a wash between the renting the Arrow or flying commerical. Except for the checkout and instruction - but I feel it made sense to get checked out in another type of aircraft. Plus, the instruction was worth it. The Arrow is not a bad plane - the Mooney is better. My girlfriend had only flown in the Mooney at that point, and much preffered it to the Arrow - which made me happy - A former girlfriend felt the Mooney was a bit tight. It has the same IO-360 as the M20E, M20F, and M20J Mooneys, so that's familiar. It is much more forgiving on the landings, has longer gear, and better prop clearence. The wings looked clunky comparted to the smooth wings of a Mooney and throttle quadrent was different, but fine. It also drops like a ROCK with no power. My goodness, I felt like I was diving at the runway when the instructor pulled the power, but my airspeed was only 90 knots. The Mooney's glide so much better. I was able to fly VFR with flight following, though I could have gone IFR and did practice a GPS approach with the instructor - I had already made the decision that if the weather looked bad, we'd fly somewhere else and then land and drive over, as my personal minimims were increased and I was not as comfortable in the Piper. I was however able to land at W00 with no problem whatsoever (short runway as mentioned in the other post today). It is good to know that if your plane is not availalbe, you can walk to the FBO, rent a plane, and be off. Great country. Take care, -Seth

Update: Thank you for the information - The engine ran on a test stand Friday and should have arrived today (may be there tomorrow) for the intallation on the Missile. I'll see what procedures they reccomened. I want to make sure to not void the warrenty, but I will take in all the advice you provided. As for the LOP vs ROP break in - there is a lot to be said for LOP ops - I've been researching a lot - so - point taken. I'm pretty sure Bolduc (the engine shop) is going to reccomend ROP break in. Regardless, high pressure, watch the temps, and no short flights. What would you consider a "short" flight to avoid during the break in - nothing less than 40 min? 60 min? 2 hours? Again, thank you. -Seth