Falcon Man

I followed my Mooney IA's and Savvy's advice on operating parameters: full throttle/MP/full rich in climb, 2200 rpm/65% HP in cruise, keeping TIT ~1550 and CHT's ~ 350F, usually ~ 25 F LOP. Fortunately my stock fuel injectors had a GAMI spread of 0.3 gph and we adjusted the cylinder baffles to keep the # 3 cylinder CHT's cooler than the stock setup. I am using the same operating parameters in my 252, so I am planning on the similar results.

This is a very informative summary. I took my LB engine 700 hrs past TBO with one top OH of cylinders. The engine shop said the bottom had just one "scuff" on a bearing, otherwise it was in good shape. (I elected for OH to new limits). My 1979 231 and 1984 262 both had the old insulation and there was moisture @ the fire wall insulation also. Removing the firewall panel was really labor intensive.

Informed decisions are great!

I have owned and flown a 231 w/ LB intercooler/auto waste gate; a 262 w/ MB engine, two stock 252's and a 1997 Encore. My home airport is @ 5300 ft elevation and have landed/took off from many other hot n' high airports. The turbocharged/supercharged K models are well suited to this mission if flying from/to an airport with adequate length. (My previous G/E/J models weren't able to give me the altitude advantages and shorter times spent over the mountainous terrain I fly over.) The main difference was the 231 had a tendency to have higher CHT's ( > 350 F.) during above std temp's hot days, so I had to accept a lower climb rate after climbing to 1000-1500 ft above field elevation. IMHO, purchase the lowest price K model and take a few years to upgrade it to whatever you desire. This might be a great way to avoid the current interest rates and inflated market. Since it's a presidential election year aircraft don't sell as fast until after the election, so that is another factor that might be worth considering.

Thanks all for the input.

When I ordered my Spatial Interior Kit I bought the optional Silicone rubber window frame and panel edge trim: $2.00 per foot. Their website shows it currently out of stock. Jaeger Aviation is the source. Jeff Silicone rubber window frame and panel edge trim: $2.00 per f

I will be flying my 252 to the Phoenix area for business regularly and am looking for information regarding a GA airport that has decent services for single engine aircraft. Recently I visited the FBO at Gateway, which is closest to my work in Chandler, and was told there is no GA maintenance available at that location. Any information or suggestions regarding this subject are appreciated. Jeff

If you plan to eliminate vacuum system in future, consider changing to electric speed brakes at the same time as the Monroe tanks.

Opinions based on reptile brain thinking, conformational bias, assumptions, etc. all lead to false narratives; I for one would like to see the data if it exists!!!!

SWEET - have a great Oshkosh...................Jealous from Idaho

Your first post mentioned you have a "550 hp" shiny engine - maybe your AP isn't up to all that torque! Ha Ha!

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

In my case I wanted to raise the temp on #5 and reduce the temp on #3, so we raised the baffle in front of #5 by adding more material and cut down the baffle material from the top of # 3, to create more down flow of cooling air. We adjusted these a couple of times before finding the correct amount of adjustment. We were able to perform these modifications by removing the induction tubes over cylinder #3 and #5 as I recall. Related, I had run a GAMI lean test and found a 0.3 gph difference between cylinder and #3 was not the leanest.

I put an Avidyne IFD 540 in a King silver crown panel that had a King 90B GPS, in a 1984 K model and it worked well with the steam gauges and a KFC 150. Recently, in my '86 252, I put a IFD 440 in to replace a 430W. The original install of the 430 was so crappy we decided to rewire the whole system. My avionics guru says the only "slide in" was the cage. He finds there are more than "just a few wires" to install, depending on the setup of the panel. It's probably worth having your panel wiring evaluated prior to jumping in to switch out to the Avidyne system. After a dozen years flying behind an Avidyne navigator and Garmin GPS system, I prefer the Avidyne - more intuitive, capable and having the knobs and touchscreen option works well for me. According to Gary Reeves, Master CFII, the Avidyne system is actually a more capable FMS system than the Garmin units, but sometimes the discussion about the brands turns into a Mooney vs. Bonanza vs. Cessna vs. Piper vs. Cirrus situation.

Consider hiring Savvy Aviation, Inc. for your pre-buy guidance and inspection. This business is not driven by aircraft sales, they are data driven maintenance specialists and can advise you with objective opinions of the value, and future maintenance issues. As previously stated in this post, the after purchase investment is a big chunk of the financial aspect of aircraft ownership. Getting guidance from someone who is in the business of brokering airplanes as a source of income, cannot provide objective.advice. At best sales data indicates market trends. Just because an aircraft sells for a certain price does not necessarily equate to its value. Actual sales price for any aircraft primarily represents what a purchaser was willing to pay. PT20J summed this up in the previous post "what's it worth to you". Many first time buyers (myself included 30 yrs. ago) regret their purchase because their emotions controlled the pocketbook, rather than making a decision based on a more rational fact based set of criteria. It's worth considering that the market for used single engine aircraft presently is very inflated, ~ 20% over the values pre-covid. Just like many things in life, timing is key. Aircraft prices generally decrease some during the winter months, and heat back up as the weather improves. FWIW

Can you give details on what all was done and $? I did a Space Saver interior s few years ago - it was a lot of work and was happy with the result but the older me doesn't want to tackle that again. Your airplane looks great.

What components do you have? Asking price(s)? Is this a functioning system?

Thanks

What is the situation regarding "removal of all Charlie weights"?

Mooney Aircraft should be building aircraft the way you did. Cheers!

Have you run a GAMI lean test? This information will help you determine much about how your engine is running. The GAMI spread information will tell you if your engine is producing balanced power in all 6 cylinders, based on the fuel flow spread. I have performed this test on all 5 of my K models (231, 262, 252's and Encore). Surprisingly only one of the aircraft had a fuel flow spread that was intolerable and GAMI fuel injectors were helpful in reducing the spread to less than 0.5 gph. Also, several engines were set up with too little of fuel flow at max power. Having similar fuel flow to cylinders and adjusted baffling went a long way in helping to level out the CHT's in climb to and cruise in the teens.

I frequently climbed in my 231 LB to the high teens as my field elevation is 5,300 ft and I flew over the Sierras on most of my flights. To keep the CHT's close to 350F I had to open the cowl flaps all the way and set FF to ~ <1500 TIT and keep the climb rate ~ 500 fpm. Cylinder # 3 was always the hottest until we modified the cylinder baffles. On occasion I would fly out of Palm Springs and the climb rate was pretty low to keep CHT's good until I got into the cooler air.

If anyone wants more info on the 262 conversion of a 231 by Coy Jacobs feel free to pm me and include a phone number and I can provide answers to most of your questions.

The factory said nothing particular as to why the factory starter was advised. Probably because the failure was specifically with lightweight starters, and no known failures with the factory one. Maybe because the MB engine was never designed to be in a 12/14 volt aircraft?? I asked why a service bulletin wasn't issued and the person I spoke with didn't know. Maybe it was because no one was injured physically and they did not authorize the STC. I would be very skeptical of any stock 231/252 has a useful load of 950 #, unless it was actually weighed per the POH. Many review authors of 231/252 wrote that all left the factory over 2000#. If you remove the vacuum system in stock 231/252 you will have to replace the speed brake system as it is vacuum operated. My old 262 current owner did this and the airplane has long range tanks and he said it was a nightmare and double the regular cost over standard tanks. And they had to get a field approval due to the wing structure modification.

My 262 experience, No problem according to my AI regarding the STC. One glaring issue is with the starter. There have been at least 5 inflight starter problems with the lightweight starters. They have activated and destroyed gears in the accessory case, causing simultaneous vacuum pump and a # 2 alternator failure. I had this happen, but I had a backup electric vacuum and a second #1 unaffected alternator. There was metal that got into the oil and destroyed the bottom end. I talked with TCM and they were aware and advised only using the original TSIO360MB big old heavy duty starter. This is a problem with the MB engine in a 12/14 v aircraft, as it has never been a reported problem in 252's, which art 24/28 volt. I did not experience any other unique problems with my 1984 231 converted to a 262, which I flew for a little more than 1000 hrs.