skeptic Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 I have one other question regarding Mooney pre-buy inspections. Every M20J that I have looked at has had at least a few loose "smoking" rivets in the wing skins. Specifically, the solid flush rivets where the skins are attached to an underlying wing rib (see attached pic). What is the recommended repair for this condition.....if any? Does replacement of these rivets normally require going to a larger rivet size, and if so, are the wing skins thick enough for the larger counter-sink hole? Quote
jetdriven Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Those rivets look like they were already replaced, and a couple look crooked. One thing, did they used AD rivets? They are denoted by small dimple in the center of the head. The softer ones will wear faster and work in the wing. Quote
skeptic Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Hmm......perhaps you are correct....they may not be the original rivets. They were AD rivets, however. I have seen a similar condition on another M20J, although without the streaming "smoke" trail. It is hard to tell from the attached pic below, but a few of the "paint-less" rivets appeared to be working slightly loose -- I'm pretty sure these were the original rivets. These were located about 3/4 way out on the wing on an M20J. Quote
mooniac58 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 I had about 40+ rivets treated before I did paint in 2009 - the repair involved drilling out the old river and installing a new one. Costly labor wise but nice to keep up on them I think. 3+ years later and I have some new ones that are smoking again. Nothing lasts forever, eh? Quote
skeptic Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 I had about 40+ rivets treated before I did paint in 2009 - the repair involved drilling out the old river and installing a new one. Costly labor wise but nice to keep up on them I think. 3+ years later and I have some new ones that are smoking again. Nothing lasts forever, eh? Interesting. Were the loose rivets all located on the wings? I think replacing these loose rivets prior to the new paint was a good move. Sometimes when replacing a loose rivet is is necessary to increase the rivet diameter. This is because the loose rivet may have elongated the holes in the skin and/or rib. If this is the case it is likely that a new rivet will also work loose over time (unless a larger rivet diameter is employed). If the skins are too thin it can be difficult to increase the rivet size, as the counter-sink depth might exceed the skin thickness. Quote
Piloto Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Smoking rivets are not always an indication of a loose rivet but more of a leaky rivet. If the inside of the wing is sprayed with a lubricant chances are that it will eventually leak through a perfect condition rivet. Rivet paint decoloration is common in areas where a thin coat of paint was applied. You will notice that old paint start peeling at edges and around rivets heads. In some instances drilling out the rivet may actually enlarge the hole forcing you to go the next size rivet. Before drilling out a rivet try rebucking it. When you rebuck a rivet it becomes fatter thus filling any clearance there may be. Many of the smoking rivets are due to lack of proper bucking during the assembly process. Some are not even buck. It is recommended that the buck side of the rivet be inspected before any action is taken. José Quote
N601RX Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 If the hole is slightly worn, you can get rivets with a oversized shank and standard size head so they look normal and not like a "repair job". My plane has 5800hrs and all the rivets apear to be original. How many other have had to replace wing rivets? Quote
Alan Fox Posted February 11, 2013 Report Posted February 11, 2013 Carefully drilling out the rivet is the way to go , Rebucking a rivet is iffy at best , The rivets are "work hardened " when originally bucked , They will spread better and take the shape of the hole when new , when previously bucked they are a lot harder , and more difficult to work.....No disrespect to Hose' intended... Quote
jetdriven Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 If the hole is slightly worn, you can get rivets with a oversized shank and standard size head so they look normal and not like a "repair job". My plane has 5800hrs and all the rivets apear to be original. How many other have had to replace wing rivets? Looks like an NAS1241 rivet is the answer, it has a 1/64" oversize shank to take up the hole better. Does anyone know the size of the rivets (skin to ribs) on the Mooney wing? They look like #5 or #6 rivets. http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/store.asp Quote
N601RX Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Spruce has them also. It seems like there was a limit on how many of these you are allowed to use adjacent to each other. Quote
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