Prop lever (am I doing something wrong)

[Paul Thomas]

On 1/8/2026 at 12:25 PM, TheAv8r said:

The blue lever should be touched at a minimum, 2 times while inflight:

1. When setting cruise power, moving the RPM to the desired RPM for cruise. 
2. Prior to landing, set at max RPM to have full available takeoff power in the event of a go-around. 

Outside of those 2 times, it's pretty normal not to need to touch it again .

How do you descend? I bring the RPM down to 2,200, pitch for -500fpm (about 160 KIAS). Typically, I'll only touch the blue knob again in the landing phase.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

How do you descend? I bring the RPM down to 2,200, pitch for -500fpm (about 160 KIAS). Typically, I'll only touch the blue knob again in the landing phase.

When I descend, I just push the yoke for 500 fpm and trim to hold it there. Then as I come down, I occasionally pull back MP and advance Mixture to maintain my previous cruise values for MP & EGT.

The prop isn't adjusted unless ATC levels me off or I start an approach whichnare lower RPM, until it's time for pattern entry when it goes forward.

[Jackk]

11 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

Correct, but a complete loss of oil pressure (likely leading to the engine seizing) is not the most common engine failure mechanism.  If the engine is windmilling and you've got any oil at all in the system, the governor is going to be at least somewhat effective in moving the prop toward low pitch.  This is especially true in the most common engine failure mode - running out of gas.

Having said that, it's somewhat unlikely the glide ratio improvement from moving the prop to coarse pitch is going to be the difference between a successful and unsuccessful engine-out scenario.  Survivability is almost entirely governed by your ability to pick a suitable landing spot within a very conservative gliding distance, and maneuver the airplane to arrive in that spot at minimum energy using a combination of flight path, drag devices, slips, etc.  You won't be able to do that unless you practice it at least occasionally.  And you won't practice it if you're afraid of damaging the engine doing so, see my rant above.

 What happens to the already low oil pressure on a partial failure by dramatically pulling the prop back?

 

 Perhaps unless you have a prop that’s designed to be feathered, don’t try to play feather the prop

[PT20J]

13 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 What happens to the already low oil pressure on a partial failure by dramatically pulling the prop back?

Nothing. The oil to the prop hub on these props is a closed system so no oil flows through the prop hub unlike a hydromatic prop. 

[Jackk]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Nothing. The oil to the prop hub on these props is a closed system so no oil flows through the prop hub unlike a hydromatic prop. 

 When you pull the prop back on runup your oil pressure doesn’t change?

 

 If I had a sick engine that still has making SOME power the last thing I’d want to do is ham fist the prop, I can’t think of a single non feathering prop plane that says to mess with the prop if you have a engine failure, full or partial 

[PT20J]

9 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 When you pull the prop back on runup your oil pressure doesn’t change?

 

 If I had a sick engine that still has making SOME power the last thing I’d want to do is ham fist the prop, I can’t think of a single non feathering prop plane that says to mess with the prop if you have a engine failure, full or partial 

[Hank]

7 hours ago, Jackk said:

If I had a sick engine that still has making SOME power the last thing I’d want to do is ham fist the prop, I can’t think of a single non feathering prop plane that says to mess with the prop if you have a engine failure, full or partial 

Pulling the prop back is done solely for extending your glide range to reach a suitable landing site when the engine is no longer running. If the engine is seized, or has a hole knocked in the case or otherwise out of oil, it will obviously not help.

[Jackk]

Seems a really silly thing to practice, I’d wager there is a reason most places and POH don’t teach it.

 

 For the average 100hr year hobby pilot, I’d want to keep it simple and not have them used to faux feather.

 Chances are if that’s how some accountant/dentist/IT guy was always trained to fly a engine out, Murphy's law the real deal engine fail he gets in the wild ain’t going to have the oil pressure to pull it back, now he’s flying a emergency engine out profile in a manner unlike how he trained.

 “Train as you fight, fight as you train“

 

At the very least I’d want them to FIRST establish best glide to a landing site THEN try the pull the prop back trick.

[Justin Schmidt]

52 minutes ago, Jackk said:

Seems a really silly thing to practice, I’d wager there is a reason most places and POH don’t teach it.

 

 For the average 100hr year hobby pilot, I’d want to keep it simple and not have them used to faux feather.

 Chances are if that’s how some accountant/dentist/IT guy was always trained to fly a engine out, Murphy's law the real deal engine fail he gets in the wild ain’t going to have the oil pressure to pull it back, now he’s flying a emergency engine out profile in a manner unlike how he trained.

 “Train as you fight, fight as you train“

 

At the very least I’d want them to FIRST establish best glide to a landing site THEN try the pull the prop back trick.

It is not a silly thing to practice or for the owner to understand. It's not feathering and all pilots should understand that. Interesting that a cfi doesn't. 

You are the first i have heard call that silly. On an engine out should be reducing throttle and prop to begin with when attemping a restart. The first several steps are memory items and happen nearly instantaneously. Primacy 

[dkkim73]

1 hour ago, Justin Schmidt said:

You are the first i have heard call that silly. On an engine out should be reducing throttle and prop to begin with when attemping a restart. The first several steps are memory items and happen nearly instantaneously. Primacy 

Interesting points about primacy and training. Starting with fixed pitch planes, it's not as natural but I have been practicing since being shown the big difference it makes at the MPPP last summer. Really a visible change in the glide angle. At least on a Fatnose Mooney.

As some one may have noted, pulling it back too far with power still on bogs it down. 

To Jackk's point, "feather" lives in a different place in my head (only a few hours multi) even though the point is similar. 

 

[EricJ]

An aerobatic or mult-engine prop will go to course pitch on loss of oil pressure, but a plebian single-engine like a Mooney will go to fine pitch and requires pulling the prop control back in the event of engine failure.    As others have mentioned, as long as the oil pump is supplying oil to the governor with the engine turning, the governor will be able to make enough pressure to push the prop to coarse pitch.    If the engine stops, the oil pump and the governor stop, and the prop goes back to fine pitch (probably, if it's turning).

Even for the 182s that I fly the Ops guys teach to pull the prop control back on the event of engine failure in order to increase glide.   It does make a difference.

 

[Jackk]

On 1/10/2026 at 10:53 AM, Justin Schmidt said:

It is not a silly thing to practice or for the owner to understand. It's not feathering and all pilots should understand that. Interesting that a cfi doesn't. 

You are the first i have heard call that silly. On an engine out should be reducing throttle and prop to begin with when attemping a restart. The first several steps are memory items and happen nearly instantaneously. Primacy 

 Yeah man, you really need to read, slow down and sound the words out, understand their meaning.

 

 FALSE

I used the word faux, which means artificial, which is what you’re basically doing when you pull the prop back on most piston singles, it’s in the same intent as a real feathering prop, presents less area / drag increasing glide performance.    Really basic stuff 

 

 Again

I’ll repeat myself for you

 If you always train that you will have the better performance that you’d get from being able to pull the prop back, and then when the engine actually fails one day, if it fails in a way that it’s not making enough pressure to pull the prop back, your mental image of where you can glide to, how it handles landing engine out, etc, it’s going to be a good bit different with that prop stuck full forward.

 

 Train for worse case 

 

 Now does that make sense, or do you need me to break that down a little more for you to better understand this?

Edited Sunday at 05:01 PM by Jackk

[TheAv8r]

On 1/9/2026 at 2:44 PM, Paul Thomas said:

How do you descend? I bring the RPM down to 2,200, pitch for -500fpm (about 160 KIAS). Typically, I'll only touch the blue knob again in the landing phase.

Depends on the airplane, but for your J, I teach:

• Don't touch anything
• Pitch for a 500fpm descent
• Adjust mixture every 1000ft to stay outside of the red fin
• Adjust throttle as necessary so you don't exceed VNE (or target a % power setting)
• 7nm from the airport, pull the power back to 15" MP, slowly work prop to full, and adjust mixture as necessary, retrim to keep a 500fpm descent - this starts slowing the airplane down
• If you've done everything right, you'll hit TPA at 3nm from the airport with your power set for pattern and that 2nm from there to the pattern will bleed the remaining airspeed off and you'll enter downwind at 90kts. (VCALC on your GPS is an excellent tool for finding ToD to give you this time to slow down)

There are certainly other ways to do it, but this is a consistent method that maximizes the speed performance of the airplane while still ensuring consistent airspeeds in the pattern and time to slow down. When you do it right, you really do hit downwind exactly at 90kts and don't have to touch the power again until abeam the numbers.

The 2 most common errors I see with this are:

1. As the airplane accelerates in the descent, the nose wants to come up (going back to the airspeed it was trimmed for) and most students will let it the first few times, leading to segments where we were only doing 200fpm so we end up high by the time we get to the pattern.
2. The inverse when pulling the power to 15" MP, they let the nose come down and don't retrim it back to a 500fpm descent, so the airplane picks up extra speed and you end up hitting TPA farther from the airport. 

[midlifeflyer]

On 1/9/2026 at 3:44 PM, Paul Thomas said:

How do you descend? I bring the RPM down to 2,200, pitch for -500fpm (about 160 KIAS). Typically, I'll only touch the blue knob again in the landing phase.

I see pilots play with the prop constantly and it befuddles me. I'm a simple guy when it comes to the prop. In all constant speed singles I teach that there are only three prop positions. to think about

1. Takeoff. Full forward (but not above redline)

2. Enroute climb. That's optional in most airplanes, typically small,  and primarily for noise and vibration mitigation unless your airplane has a continuous power limitation.

3. Cruise. Whatever you happened to choose that day.

I don't see a reason to change cruise setting  for descents . And the position for landing is just the takeoff position.

 

[Justin Schmidt]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

 Yeah man, you really need to read, slow down and sound the words out, understand their meaning.

 

 FALSE

I used the word faux, which means artificial, which is what you’re basically doing when you pull the prop back on most piston singles, it’s in the same intent as a real feathering prop, presents less area / drag increasing glide performance.    Really basic stuff 

 

 Again

I’ll repeat myself for you

 If you always train that you will have the better performance that you’d get from being able to pull the prop back, and then when the engine actually fails one day, if it fails in a way that it’s not making enough pressure to pull the prop back, your mental image of where you can glide to, how it handles landing engine out, etc, it’s going to be a good bit different with that prop stuck full forward.

 

 Train for worse case 

 

 Now does that make sense, or do you need me to break that down a little more for you to better understand this?

You are same type of idiot that calls teardrop into pattern. 

Stop using words in ways they are not supposed to be used. I hope i am never in the air near you, you are what gives pilots and  humans a bad name

[Justin Schmidt]

@Jackk you are a product of atp it seems

[Jackk]

16 minutes ago, Justin Schmidt said:

You are same type of idiot that calls teardrop into pattern. 

Stop using words in ways they are not supposed to be used. I hope i am never in the air near you, you are what gives pilots and  humans a bad name

 What are you on?

 

 Did you not know the meanings of the words I was using?  I didn’t think “faux” was going outside your lexicon.

 

 I can’t recall the last time I did a teardrop into a pattern, I typically enter directly based on my location and pattern direction, or at work I’m on a IAP or getting vectors 80% of the time.

 

Doubt you’ll be anywhere near me, I’m ether landing in the grass on strips far from the apartments of Cincinnati, or at work at altitudes much higher than you fly.

 

 ^ Not that any of this or your comments have a thing to do with the very simple fact I was mentioning where on a good number of engine failures you ain’t going to be able to pull the prop back, thus best train for the worse and give the pull the prop back trick a try not expecting it to work.

 

12 minutes ago, Justin Schmidt said:

@Jackk you are a product of atp it seems

 Nope

 

Original product of some old school Pt61 training in 1940s tailwheel planes, most recently a product of recurrent Flight Safety International.

 

 You?