Garmin Pilot disappointment

[Hank]

Yes, I keep my tablet on during approach, set to display the approach plate. Aren't we required to have the plate available? It has all waypoints with altitude, reminds me of ASOS frequency when changing from Center to Approach to Tower / Unicom. It has any other relevant frequencies, all altitudes at all waypoints. Having the little red plane show up on it is just gravy.

And since it's Samsung and not apple, I have no issues with battery life or heat build up. Then again, I've not used it on a flight much over 4:30, and it was only that long because I had five (5!) reroutes and destination weather forecast for 25,000 broken turned out to be 400 Overcast, 1.5 miles visibility in mist.

[Jackk]

12 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

When you were flying with paper approach plates did you stow the plate during the approach??

 It was clipped to the yoke, so I didn’t remove it, but I didn’t look at it again 

[LANCECASPER]

 It was clipped to the yoke, so I didn’t remove it, but I didn’t look at it again 

[Jackk]

12 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

 If it’s in the box what do I need to use the plate or iPad for after it being briefed and confirmed?

 

 The plane (and I) are going to follow the box 

[LANCECASPER]

21 hours ago, Hank said:

And since it's Samsung and not apple, I have no issues with battery life or heat build up. 

I think you've now reached your 100th cheap shot on Apple devices . . lol. There's no perfect device. On most issues that people have it's operator error. 

When you do a Google search "samsung tablet overheats" or "samsung tablet starts on fire" or "samsung tablet battery draining too fast" or "apple ipad overheats" or "apple ipad starts on fire" or "apple ipad battery draining too fast" you'll find that people do some stupid things with their devices like charging a Samsung tablet under a blanket on a mattress and then being surprised when it catches on fire. 

(Anecdotally, I live in Texas and the only time I've ever had an iPad overheat is when I stupidly left it on the glareshield at a fuel stop. I don't keep mine in a case though since the aluminum dissipates the heat very well when it's not in a case.)

 

[LANCECASPER]

4 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 If it’s in the box what do I need to use the plate or iPad for after it being briefed and confirmed?

 

 The plane (and I) are going to follow the box 

And thankfully electronic boxes never have a history of shutting off or freezing. 

[Slick Nick]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

 If it’s in the box what do I need to use the plate or iPad for after it being briefed and confirmed?

 

 The plane (and I) are going to follow the box 

Yikes. 

[Jackk]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

And thankfully electronic boxes never have a history of shutting off or freezing. 

 If the full navigation system of the aircraft shuts off or freezes we are radar vectors for a ASR or VMC or something anyways 

 

 I have never had a complete avionics system failure like that.  In all my time flying I’ve had crazy weather, engine failures, all sorts of stuff, but never seen that one

[Jackk]

22 minutes ago, Slick Nick said:

Yikes. 

 What would you follow?

 You’re going to fly the iPad vs your avionics?

 

 iPad is just to double check the data in the box

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, Jackk said:

I have never had a complete avionics system failure like that.  In all my time flying I’ve had crazy weather, engine failures, all sorts of stuff, but never seen that one

I have. Twice. In my Mooney. 

The first time I was flying with my CFII, had done an ILS in the soup and headed off for Approach #2. Descended into clear air on the outbound leg of a VOR-A approach; crossing the VOR inbound, everything turned off and wouldn’t come back on. 

[donkaye, MCFI]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

 What would you follow?

 You’re going to fly the iPad vs your avionics?

 

 iPad is just to double check the data in the box

I'm flying the avionics with the Aera 760 on the yoke being used as primary for the approach chart.  Easily switched between North up and Track up.  However, with the advent of Smartcharts, I find myself prebriefing with it and even monitoring the profile with the iPad in my lap.  So many valuable things all in one place and so easy to use.  I particularly appreciate the airport details such as slope, and the "Show Minimums" tab that shows minimums of all approaches without having to swipe through all of them.  Being able to easily switch between the Smartchart and the traditional chart is also nice.

[Jackk]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I have. Twice. In my Mooney. 

The first time I was flying with my CFII, had done an ILS in the soup and headed off for Approach #2. Descended into clear air on the outbound leg of a VOR-A approach; crossing the VOR inbound, everything turned off and wouldn’t come back on. 

 That is crazy, I’d rethink the planes you fly 

 

 Im no pre Madonna, but I’d have someone’s ass for that 

What was the cause?  Did you file the NTSB paperwork for that one?

Edited December 25, 2025 by Jackk

[Hank]

9 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 That is crazy, I’d rethink the planes you fly 

 

 Im no pre Madonna, but I’d have someone’s ass for that 

What was the cause?  Did you file the NTSB paperwork for that one?

What NTSB report? For an electrical failure? It was a component on the circuit board behind the panel light dimmer that blew. We flew home VFR below the ceiling, following the Ohio River because that was the flattest terrain around (just in case). Made a normal landing at home, just took longer to get there with the gear down.

The second time I was on an IFR flight plan in  VMC, and the field wire to the alternator failed. The guys at the FBO were very excited when I landed, and the police who Memphis Center called to check on me were happy I was uninjured but sad to not be able to participate in "a dramatic rescue." Flight Service closed my flight plan when I called them before getting out and being flagged down by the excited guys running out of the FBO.

I am very pre-Madonna, she never played my style of music. Give me Outlaw Country any day, back when Madonna was a young girl using her real name. 

[Slick Nick]

3 hours ago, Jackk said:

 What would you follow?

 You’re going to fly the iPad vs your avionics?

 

 iPad is just to double check the data in the box

Of course I fly the avionics, but you need to be able to quickly reference things from the plate, like your FAF crossing altitude, missed approach instructions, sector altitudes, etc. 

[Andy95W]

Maybe we can get @Aaviationist here to argue with Jack.

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Maybe we can get @Aaviationist here to argue with Jack.

I think cock fighting is illegal in all 50 states . . lol

[Aaviationist]

Imagine being so much smarter and better than everyone that there’s no chance you could lose an alternator, and you would “have someone’s ass” if you did. 
 

also imagine being able to completely memorize a plate and no longer needing a reference to it after briefing it. Just put it in the box and follow it blindly based on superior short term recollection. 
 

Surely such a highly skilled individual must have been studied by the FAA so we can rewrite all standards and regulations based on this superior knowledge of power generation and advanced memorization skills. 
 

id imagine such a person is surely smarter than all the engineers and scientists that spent the last 100 years developing these technologies and guidance around them. 

[Aaviationist]

Imagine being so superiorly skilled and intelligent that you need to prove every major airline in the country is using portable devices incorrectly. 

[midlifeflyer]

15 hours ago, Jackk said:

 Just curious what avionics are you flying?

 

 A good amount of my FOs, well brief the approach, I have PF brief the box and PM follow along on the iPad.

 

 I’ll ask something like “set missed altitude” and some will reach for their iPad… uhh, why did we brief this thing if you can just look at the FMS (or GPS) and pull it from there 

 

 even if flying a 430 that doesn’t have altitudes for whatever reason, with steam, I’ll jot down mins, missed altitude, tower, ground, and direction of my turn off for taxi.    That’s that for the iPad till taxi or Netflix time 

You are describing a crew environment, which is different in many ways. 

You are talking about “jotting down mins, “ a step I stopped doing when they were done for me on the EFB (well before either Dynamic Procedures or SmartCharts)  

”why did we brief this thing if you can just look at the FMS (or GPS) and pull it from there?” You may brief to memorize. I don’t.  I learned a personal limitation in retaining numbers ages ago. So, my briefing is more about setup and situational awareness that numerology and my answer to that is, “because my memory isn’t perfect so I’m cross-checking.” 

My avionics? Pretty much everything from analog to glass from multiple companies, navigators/FMS from Garmin and Avidyne, and autopilots from King, STEC, Garmin and others I can barely remember.

I’m not sure why you want to drill down. Is it that really that hard to accept that pilots use multiple techniques that work? Or are you like the CFII I encountered years ago who led me to come up with my First Commandment of Flight Instruction before I ever became a CFI?

“Thou shalt not try to force a change in a pilot technique that works just because you happen to like another one better.”

[Jackk]

12 hours ago, Slick Nick said:

Of course I fly the avionics, but you need to be able to quickly reference things from the plate, like your FAF crossing altitude, missed approach instructions, sector altitudes, etc. 

 

 That FAF should be in the box and briefed before TOD

13 hours ago, Hank said:

What NTSB report? For an electrical failure? It was a component on the circuit board behind the panel light dimmer that blew. We flew home VFR below the ceiling, following the Ohio River because that was the flattest terrain around (just in case). Made a normal landing at home, just took longer to get there with the gear down.

The second time I was on an IFR flight plan in  VMC, and the field wire to the alternator failed. The guys at the FBO were very excited when I landed, and the police who Memphis Center called to check on me were happy I was uninjured but sad to not be able to participate in "a dramatic rescue." Flight Service closed my flight plan when I called them before getting out and being flagged down by the excited guys running out of the FBO.

I am very pre-Madonna, she never played my style of music. Give me Outlaw Country any day, back when Madonna was a young girl using her real name. 

 Ahh I thought you had a navigational system failure vs a full electrical failure

 

 How long were you able to run your nav before the battery died?   IMC?   Glad you were ok 

4 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

You are describing a crew environment, which is different in many ways. 

You are talking about “jotting down mins, “ a step I stopped doing when they were done for me on the EFB (well before either Dynamic Procedures or SmartCharts)  

”why did we brief this thing if you can just look at the FMS (or GPS) and pull it from there?” You may brief to memorize. I don’t.  I learned a personal limitation in retaining numbers ages ago. So, my briefing is more about setup and situational awareness that numerology and my answer to that is, “because my memory isn’t perfect so I’m cross-checking.” 

My avionics? Pretty much everything from analog to glass from multiple companies, navigators/FMS from Garmin and Avidyne, and autopilots from King, STEC, Garmin and others I can barely remember.

I’m not sure why you want to drill down. Is it that really that hard to accept that pilots use multiple techniques that work? Or are you like the CFII I encountered years ago who led me to come up with my First Commandment of Flight Instruction before I ever became a CFI?

“Thou shalt not try to force a change in a pilot technique that works just because you happen to like another one better.”

 I did the same working as SPIFR, used the EFB to brief and verify what I had loaded.

 

 As long as your avionics also show altitude for waypoints, and you ether can jot down or set mins somewhere, that’s that 

 

 Might just be the CFI in me, but when there is a much better way to do something I like to point it out, just what I’ve leaned over the years

[LANCECASPER]

31 minutes ago, Jackk said:

Might just be the CFI in me, but when there is a much better way to do something I like to point it out, just what I’ve leaned over the years

When you have a much better way, feel free to share it. With the collective wisdom that has commented so far, this isn't one of them.

Teaching a student to rely on their memory rather than what's on the approach plate is not what I would look for in a CFI. And then continuing to double-down* when no one else agrees with you will deservedly earn you many "Ignore"s on Mooneyspace. 

(*to intensify your commitment to a stance, idea, or action, often becoming even more determined or risky, especially when facing criticism or a challenging situation, rather than backing off)

[Hank]

35 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 As long as your avionics also show altitude for waypoints, and you ether can jot down or set mins somewhere, that’s that

My Garmin 430W doesn't show any altitudes on approaches, only waypoints. No frequencies are given, either.

[Aaviationist]

Relying on memory for something you looked at for a minute or two while flying an airplane is about the dumbest thing I think I’ve ever heard anyone suggest. Getting upset about someone using a reference is about the most unsafe and low IQ thing I think I’ve ever seen anyone do. 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

Might just be the CFI in me, but when there is a much better way to do something I like to point it out, just what I’ve leaned over the years

Well, since you feel free to violate my First Commandment, I will pay no attention to you. Really. . After what that experienced CFII (he was also a controller) did to me - something that took several years to fix -  I have zero respect for that attitude.

If I see some technique is causing a problem,  I will suggest they try something I think is better.  It's actually pretty easy to test. I pretty much do one of those on every recurrent (as opposed to primary or transition) training flight. Nothing fancy. For a wicked simple example, if I see someone using VTF (which I never use), I'll just put them into a situation where it causes a problem. Deer in the headlight? We have something to discuss. Fixes it in 8-10 seconds with no hesitation? I see no reason to mess with it. 

With my list of GPS tasks pilots have trouble with, I'm not going t waste my and and client's time fixing something that ain't broken. Sorry you feel the need to do that.

 

[Jackk]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

When you have a much better way, feel free to share it. With the collective wisdom that has commented so far, this isn't one of them.

Teaching a student to rely on their memory rather than what's on the approach plate is not what I would look for in a CFI. And then continuing to double-down* when no one else agrees with you will deservedly earn you many "Ignore"s on Mooneyspace. 

(*to intensify your commitment to a stance, idea, or action, often becoming even more determined or risky, especially when facing criticism or a challenging situation, rather than backing off)

 I honesty have zero desire to help grown adults who have to self censor what they can see, in my life I have never “ignored” someone in a forum, lack of mental grit IMHO

 

I clearly never said to memorize anything, re read my posts.

 

 The method I stated I also clearly said does not work for something like a 430 where it doesn’t have altitudes for each fix on the FMS (FPL)  page