How Many Hours is Too Little Hours

[bigmo]

Not sure if that's good English...

I have a buyer lined up for my plane, so my searching for my new plane is ramping up. I have a few strong contenders now and going through logs. Several J's, a couple of uber-nice pre-J's and *cough* a couple of Cirrus SR20s. So this is reference one of the SR20s that I found. Absolute creme puff. Was owned by Cirrus corporate for about 1/2 it's life and so excellent maintenance. Then the current owner bought it and it became a hangar queen. For the past 15 years of his ownership, it has flown about 100 hours total. Most years are 5ish hours, some years a little more, and two years it did not fly. Engine is 6 cylinder Conti IO-360ES.

Recent annual, compressions were all 76-78/80 and of course "no defects found".

So keeping the conversation to JUST the engine - is this a deal breaker? I will NOT make her a hangar queen. I flew 200+ hours this past year...that's my normal jam. FWIW, that's a factory new engine and not an overhaul.

We'll of course do a pre-buy inspection. Engine components have all seen recent maintenance/repair etc.. - but my concerns are strictly about the 15 years of VERY low use.

And a little comedy, the owner just bought a G5 FIKI. Nothing like a new $1M hangar queen. My gut says pilot in his 70's, likes to drink his coffee, listen to his ball games on the AM and wash it.

 

 

[N204TA]

The biggest issue with engine inactivity is corrosion.  I wouldn’t automatically call an airplane only flying five hours a year for 15 years a deal breaker, but I’d sure borescope every inch of the cylinders.

[MikeOH]

Trying to be objective here (since it's a CIRRUS!), but that low usage absolutely violates my number one purchase criteria: consistent and RECENT usage.  Unless it's priced as a run-out I, personally, would walk.  Plenty of other planes out there; no need to take the risk.

[McMooney]

where is it located ?

 

[Utah20Gflyer]

9 hours ago, McMooney said:

where is it located ?

 

This is a very important factor.  If it’s in a dry climate it might be ok.  If it is in a humid climate I can’t imagine it not having internal corrosion with that little usage.   If you can get permission to pull lifters to inspect the cam that would be good— if you can do that on an io360? The big block continentals you can.  
 

Also, expect a higher than normal number of things that may currently work to go bad in the first year because things don’t like to sit idle for long periods. 
 

So in summary it’s a high risk plane.  That doesn’t mean don’t buy it but it should be at a discount and with the understanding of what you are getting into.  If it ends up having lots of issues you won’t be flying 200 hours a year any more. 

[AndreiC]

I think it's luck of the draw. The previous plane I owned, a Cherokee 180, had sat for over 10 years with minimal activity (maybe 10 hours total over 10 years). I got a great price on her, and flew her for 10 years after at about 60 hours/year with zero problems. Great compressions, no signs of any corrosion. But the place where it had sat was in the desert part of Texas, with almost no humidity. So I think it depends on where it has sat.

Also I was told Conti's have less problems with camshaft corrosion than Lycomings, since the cam is located below the cylinders and gets more oil when it sits. But I don't know if other parts of the engine don't suffer more, just have no experience with Continentals.

[philiplane]

Borescope the cylinders, and pull the pushrods & tubes out on one side, to remove lifters and inspect the camshaft. This would only take half a day to do. And it will reveal any possible corrosion that could shorten the life of the engine. In the event you find any minor pitting on the lifters, they can be replaced easily. So long as the camshaft itself passes Continental's Service Bulletin specs. 

[NickG]

I have about 20 hours in SR20's. Seriously underpowered. Just my 2 cents.

[RoundTwo]

15 hours ago, bigmo said:

Not sure if that's good English...

I have a buyer lined up for my plane, so my searching for my new plane is ramping up. I have a few strong contenders now and going through logs. Several J's, a couple of uber-nice pre-J's and *cough* a couple of Cirrus SR20s. So this is reference one of the SR20s that I found. Absolute creme puff. Was owned by Cirrus corporate for about 1/2 it's life and so excellent maintenance. Then the current owner bought it and it became a hangar queen. For the past 15 years of his ownership, it has flown about 100 hours total. Most years are 5ish hours, some years a little more, and two years it did not fly. Engine is 6 cylinder Conti IO-360ES.

Recent annual, compressions were all 76-78/80 and of course "no defects found".

So keeping the conversation to JUST the engine - is this a deal breaker? I will NOT make her a hangar queen. I flew 200+ hours this past year...that's my normal jam. FWIW, that's a factory new engine and not an overhaul.

We'll of course do a pre-buy inspection. Engine components have all seen recent maintenance/repair etc.. - but my concerns are strictly about the 15 years of VERY low use.

And a little comedy, the owner just bought a G5 FIKI. Nothing like a new $1M hangar queen. My gut says pilot in his 70's, likes to drink his coffee, listen to his ball games on the AM and wash it.

 

 

Please pass along the contact info of the owner as I’d like to become his new best friend and help him keep my next plane in perfect cosmetic condition.

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, philiplane said:

Borescope the cylinders, and pull the pushrods & tubes out on one side, to remove lifters and inspect the camshaft. This would only take half a day to do. And it will reveal any possible corrosion that could shorten the life of the engine. In the event you find any minor pitting on the lifters, they can be replaced easily. So long as the camshaft itself passes Continental's Service Bulletin specs. 

Did this on my plane due to low recent usage.  Seller paid for a new set of lifters.  Cam was fine.  I should have asked for 1/2 the cost of the labor.

 

[bigmo]

Stellar feedback all - I know to trust my gut and my gut says walk. Really nice broker (it's Gary Black, the original Cirrus test pilot). Semi-ironically, he;s the first guy to fly this aircraft. Too many ? to make a risky decision.

So...I'm scratching this oddball Cirrus itch and back to serious discussions with Jimmy at Gmax.