Prebuy/Annual in Huntington, WV area - M20J

[mmcdaniel33]

I'm back, after a failed look at an M20F in Hartford, my search has lead me to a 1977 M20J (N82KL) in Huntington, WV.  Unlike my last couple of candidates this one had zero red flags, and the in person visit went very well.  So, now looking for a prebuy guy.  The plane is due for annual next month, so really looking for a combo prebuy/annual thing.  Both shops that I would plan to use down the road in ownership are weeks out from being able to do this, so will look elsewhere.  The owner is a physician and is eager to work out something, but with his schedule it needs to be a close trip for the delivery to the inspection site.  So thoughts, recommendations?

Also, his Century IIb/STEC 60PSS autopilot combo has developed a severe list to the left (immediately turns about 30degrees left and just stays there).  That needs to be addressed, so hopefully his shop does it, or the prebuy/annual place can.  A functional autopilot is on my must have, or we renegotiate the sales price.  

Logs looked great, the plane has been active.  He has purchased a 2007 Cirrus and wants this one gone!

[Pinecone]

@jetdriven  KGAI.

I don't think he can do the autopilot though.  But he knows where to get it done

 

[Fritz1]

Weber in PA and Airmods in Robbinsville NJ come to mind, Byerly in Peoria IL. Needles to say the art of the deal will be to get this done quickly and possibly where the ac is located. In an ideal world the shop that will maintain the aircraft should do the prebuy. In the end this may all be theoretical, and you will do the best job you can yourself if you have owned an aircraft previously. 

[Pinecone]

One caveat, only if the shop is very familiar with Mooneys.  There are a few gotcha areas WRT to corrosion that a non-Mooney shop might not know to check.

[LANCECASPER]

18 hours ago, mmcdaniel33 said:

I'm back, after a failed look at an M20F in Hartford, my search has lead me to a 1977 M20J (N82KL) in Huntington, WV.  Unlike my last couple of candidates this one had zero red flags, and the in person visit went very well.  So, now looking for a prebuy guy.  The plane is due for annual next month, so really looking for a combo prebuy/annual thing.  Both shops that I would plan to use down the road in ownership are weeks out from being able to do this, so will look elsewhere.  The owner is a physician and is eager to work out something, but with his schedule it needs to be a close trip for the delivery to the inspection site.  So thoughts, recommendations?

Also, his Century IIb/STEC 60PSS autopilot combo has developed a severe list to the left (immediately turns about 30degrees left and just stays there).  That needs to be addressed, so hopefully his shop does it, or the prebuy/annual place can.  A functional autopilot is on my must have, or we renegotiate the sales price.  

Logs looked great, the plane has been active.  He has purchased a 2007 Cirrus and wants this one gone!

The Century IIb was the least expensive of the autopilot options in 1977. It didn't have altitude hold - I had one on a 1978 Grumman Tiger.  The STec pitch control was added later. If having a functional autopilot on the airplane you buy is a must - this is probably not the airplane for you. With an autopilot this old, even if you get this current 30 degree situation figured out, it will be something else soon after and you will be throwing good money after bad.

If you spend the money to subscribe to Vref to do a price evaluation on the airplane you will see that any avionics in the panel that age are not adding any value to the airplane, so trying to renegotiate the value of a 47 year old autopilot that's already valued at zero is futile. The plane may not be priced correctly, but it would be based on the airframe, engine, prop, paint interior and fuel tanks. If anything original in the panel still works consider it a bonus. If a functional autopilot is a must, you're much better off finding an airplane with the more recent avionics that you want. 

This squawk is also way down on the list of what you should be looking at in the pre-buy.

First look at the airframe - corrosion may be a showstopper. Look at the shock discs for two reasons - it's a $2500 job, and it's a good indication of how they view deferred maintenance. If they have a 1977 date on the disc - think of all of the other items that have been deferred.

Next I would consider the powerplant (engine/prop - has the airplane sat a lot time without flying?).

The fuel tanks are not a cheap fix on this airplane - the only way to know if they leak is to fill them to the brim and let them sit at least overnight. Keep in mind if there are no leaks presently and no logbook entires of a complete re-seal, 47 year old tanks are way past due for a re-seal.

The paint and interior are really only indications of how the airplane has been cared for and the pride they took in owning it - definitely not at the top of the list. However don't be fooled with new paint and interior that may have been done to take your attention from airworthy items.

While the panel is necessary - avionics have a lifespan. What was the latest and greatest 20 years ago may still work today but they aren't worth hardly anything. Amortize the avionics over 15 years - if you get more use than that out of it consider it a plus. Vref does that and doesn't assign much if any value to anything over ten years old since repair costs are often close to what replacing it would be.

[mmcdaniel33]

Thanks for the tips!  The Mooney awareness is the reason I'm having a hard time finding a shop to do the work in a reasonable time.  I've found one in Kentucky, but the physician owner would have difficulties getting the plane there and getting back, plus what if a serious issue comes up.  He is in sports medicine so has a crazy schedule.

So closer is better.  I plan to use Cole Aviation in Georgia going forward and they can do this in 5 weeks, longer than we want to wait, plus still the distance issue and the awkwardness of a gotcha.

I have firm reason to BELIEVE that the plane is sound, but believing is not knowing and even the most fastidious owner can be shocked by a finding on the older airframes.

Concerning the autopilot, I want it to be working so I have time to plan and budget the replacement.  I have my heart set on an Aerocruz 100.  I have one in my Warrior and love it.  It's a bargain and has proven to be very reliable.  But its still problematic in mid length Mooneys.  My other option is a Garmin GFC 500, but then I have to go with G5's and I much prefer the AV30's that I put in my warrior.  Plus the additional $$.  My wife LOVES the speed of the Mooney option (she gets ansy after more than an hour) and the ramp appeal, but would faint at the cost of the Garmin option!

If the autopilot is not fixed, or fixable, then a renegotiated price will be agreed on or I will have to pass.

Truthfully, it is still zero fun shopping for a new airplane.  Lots of losers out there.  I'm NOT in a huge rush, I have a well equipped and pristine 78 Warrior II, but would like to "get er done" as we say in the south.

 

[Fritz1]

call around, for the right price and some other form of good and valuable consideration somebody will be able to get this done on site or close thereto, bear in mind that the prebuy guy takes a lot of responsibility, doing his job right the effort will be equivalent to or higher than for an annual. If there is no follow on maintenance business you will have to put up something else to motivate somebody that knows Mooneys to put in overtime during a weekend. First and most important line item will be corrosion, time and money will fix anything else. I keep fingers crossed!

[daytonabch04]

+1 for Cole.  He will do right by you and give you a fair assessment on the plane.  He does my oil changes for my Bravo. 

[Hank]

When I lived in Huntington, the shop on our field (KHTW) took care of several other Mooneys beside just mine. They also had a shop at KHTW. But I think they had trouble and closed. It would be worth checking with the shop at HTS anyway.

There were also a couple of Mooneys in nearby Ashland, KY but I forget the airport code. They used to come to HTW, too. Maybe ask where they go now?

Joey Cole is great, I've gone there from here, about a 4 hour rental car ride home.

Good luck with the purchase!

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The paint and interior are really only indications of how the airplane has been cared for and the pride they took in owning it - definitely not at the top of the list. However don't be fooled with new paint and interior that may have been done to take your attention from airworthy items.

While the panel is necessary - avionics have a lifespan. What was the latest and greatest 20 years ago may still work today but they aren't worth hardly anything. Amortize the avionics over 15 years - if you get more use than that out of it consider it a plus. Vref does that and doesn't assign much if any value to anything over ten years old since repair costs are often close to what replacing it would be.

Also beware of the very recent overhaul of the engine.  Might be a shop who takes it apart and puts it back together without doing any to have a selling point of 100 SMOH.

If the price is right, you can paint/interior/avionics to YOUR desires.  But it will be costly.  If good enough to fly, you can spread those costs over several years.

[mmcdaniel33]

It would be worth checking with the shop at HTS anyway.

 

That's the shop that the owner currently uses.  So trying to avoid it...It would be worth checking with the shop at HTS anyway. Checking into the A&P who did the annuals up until 2019.  Fred Riffle.  He is apparently still in the area.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, mmcdaniel33 said:

It would be worth checking with the shop at HTS anyway. Checking into the A&P who did the annuals up until 2019.  Fred Riffle.  He is apparently still in the area.

Sorry, Fred was after my time. I used Terry Philips.

Used to be an independent IA in the area. Let me dig through my logs, there may be a signature from before I bought my C in '07. But he may be getting a little long in the tooth.