KLN 94 database update

[lithium366]

On 10/18/2019 at 10:02 AM, steingar said:

Thanks Lance.  I just got off the phone with them and they said as much.  The yearly subscription didn't appear on their website the other night, possibly my error or possibly my antiquated web browser.  I'll give it another go tonight.  If I still can't get at it I can do it over the phone Monday.

Still new to this game, so I'll have my stumbles.  Still, nice to know I didn't install a money drain in my panel.  the numbers quoted are what I thought going in.

Advise: If you going to use Image Mate with your cards do not download database from their website until you read your current database key using Image Mate. Apparently their database loading application might change their database key (I think this happens when you change the way that you use to upload database: cable vs card reader but that’s just my theory). It was even documented somewhere (can’t find but remember there was a statement about this). 

[carusoam]

If you need help getting your hardware updated... the BK Pilot services group will talk you through the process... call you while you are at the airport...and go the extra mile... they were amazingly helpful to me...

So... I bought a few extra downloads from a great MSer... (see if Lance remembers this...) BK actually transferred the ownership without any challenge... 

My biggest challenge was related to a loose cable that needed to be re-seated behind the panel...

If you make sure you get the database key from the KLN on your PC... you have proven the com line to be working...

If you don’t get the devices to talk first... don’t erase the existing data base... that is brick city...

Best regards,

-a-

[lithium366]

9 minutes ago, carusoam said:

If you need help getting your hardware updated... the BK Pilot services group will talk you through the process... call you while you are at the airport...and go the extra mile... they were amazingly helpful to me...

So... I bought a few extra downloads from a great MSer... (see if Lance remembers this...) BK actually transferred the ownership without any challenge... 

My biggest challenge was related to a loose cable that needed to be re-seated behind the panel...

If you make sure you get the database key from the KLN on your PC... you have proven the com line to be working...

If you don’t get the devices to talk first... don’t erase the existing data base... that is brick city...

Best regards,

-a-

I just re-flashed a wiped card for one of the MSers. I am not sure if there is a way to restore data in KLN 89 but in KLN 94 is’t just a matter of paying for the next download and re-flashing (if database key doesn’t change then just another write attempt). But really, What I don’t understand is why people try to use pricy legacy cables if they can buy an Image Mate card reader for $10 on Ebay. That is cheaper and more reliable way to update maps in KLN 94. Probably because it only works on KLN 94 or less known way?

Best

Ilya

[carusoam]

Ilya... I had trouble with plugging in a wire...  (KLN90B)

i didn’t get far enough to handle the data.

Getting the PC up to date, to run the BK software, obtaining the serial device, then downloading a database, then bricking the device...

Getting old wasn’t a very friendly experience...  I’m much younger now...
 

Wish you were here a few years ago... that would have been great!

-a-

[steingar]

Oops, I have one of the antiquated card reader devices.  Came with the GPS.  DIdn't know there was a cheap replacement from Ebay.  I am going to do this next week.  Don''t know what a database key is, but hopefully I can do a better job than on the financial end of things.

[lithium366]

6 hours ago, steingar said:

Oops, I have one of the antiquated card reader devices.  Came with the GPS.  DIdn't know there was a cheap replacement from Ebay.  I am going to do this next week.  Don''t know what a database key is, but hopefully I can do a better job than on the financial end of things.

Keep us updated! As I already said - the point of this post is to make sure we have a good source of knowledge and people who can successfully update their databases!

[lithium366]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

Mines a kln39 and it is exactly that  its very simple.

One thing  I would like to know is whether you can put a kln94 database into a 39. The 39 is a vfr only device, but I would love to have all the ifr waypoints loaded into it as well, as it would make my life a lot better.  Any ideas?  

Do you have a picture of your GPS? I never heard of KLN-39

[carusoam]

Andrew,

See if you can look up how much memory the GPS device has... you might run into a memory limitation... 

Somewhere along the way... the 90b ran out of memory to have the whole US...so they are now broken down to 1/2 the US...

Best regards,

-a-

[steingar]

The 135a updates via a totally different methodology.  The KLN94 has a memory card.  Updates have to be done once a month for it to be IFR legal.  The 135a is a VFR-only device for which there is no legal requirement for update.  I don't even know why you would.  A single update is pricey.  Save the money and buy a good handheld.  I've flown with KX135a's for years.  They're nice little boxes (indeed I have one for sale).  But I wouldn't put the money in to update one.  But if you really want to, there should be a data input port on your panel.  Talk to your avionics guy, he probably has the right plug to go in it.  

[lithium366]

I am not 100% sure but I think database for 35a is cheaper, one day I saw prices somewhere so no reason to buy an IFR update for KLN-94. On the other note I agree with above: you need a cable and not really sure why you need to update it for VFR (if you already have a working database)

[lithium366]

8 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

I do have a working db, but it is only vfr ie does not have ifr airways reporting points, "ortac" for example in the english channel.  If I could get those as well, not to do approachs, just so when they say direct to xxxxx i can just use that device rather than the ipad search finction which is cumbersome.  

I doubt database loading software will let you upload that database into your GPS. In fact I think receiver model is encoded somewhere in database key. You could try, if you willing to risk money and your GPS. To me it was always easier to pick a point in iPad rather than enter 3-4 character identifier using knobs

[steingar]

All right, a little update to my own little saga. I bought a year’s worth of database updates from Honeywell. Downloaded an update in an .exe file. It dumped several files of the Ubuntu desktop I have on this little donor PC. Now what do I do to get the database from the desktop to the ancient memory device? I suspect this is a fairly straightforward PC question, but I’ve always been a Mac user.

Word to the wise. If you’re going to do this to download an update you need a database key from the GPS itself.  Maybe everyone knows this but me, but I had to make an extra trip.

Edited November 11, 2019 by steingar

[lithium366]

19 minutes ago, steingar said:

All right, a little update to my own little saga. I bought a year’s worth of database updates from Honeywell. Downloaded an update in an .exe file. It dumped several files of the Ubuntu desktop I have on this little donor PC. Now what do I do to get the database from the desktop to the ancient memory device? I suspect this is a fairly straightforward PC question, but I’ve always been a Mac user.

Word to the wise. If you’re going to do this to download an update you need a database key from the GPS itself.  Maybe everyone knows this but me, but I had to make an extra trip.

Install Virtual Box with Windows 98 in it. Then inside of guest OS you can use GPS database loader. You can download it here: http://peter2000.co.uk/aviation/kln94-database/index.html

You need VirtualBox because GPS database loader is a Windows program and you will be not able to run it in Linux. VirtualBox is a virtualization software that allows you to install windows inside of your operating system (din’t worry, it will use a single file container and you can get rid of it just deleting the file later). In other words it is Windows operating system that runs in your Linux. For some reason GPS database loader never worked for me in any other Windows but 98 so just use this version

Please note that database key is likely to change first time you put your memory card into a card reader so be prepared to the fact that you wasted one of your downloads already

[Louis]

On 10/28/2019 at 2:20 PM, lithium366 said:

Keep us updated! As I already said - the point of this post is to make sure we have a good source of knowledge and people who can successfully update their databases!

The database key is located on SET page 3.  It is a unique key that lives in the configuration module of your GPS.  When you download a new database from say wingmanservices.com for the KLN 94 you have to supply that key.  Then when you open your interface software to update the new database via your interface cable, the keys match and everything is a go. 

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, Louis said:

The database key is located on SET page 3.  It is a unique key that lives in the configuration module of your GPS.  When you download a new database from say wingmanservices.com for the KLN 94 you have to supply that key.  Then when you open your interface software to update the new database via your interface cable, the keys match and everything is a go. 

And if I remember correctly, the key changes every time.

[Louis]

11 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

And if I remember correctly, the key changes every time.

I have only updated my KLN 94 once and have not experienced it changing. It is easy enough to check.  Just look on the SET page 3 after you complete an update. As soon as the new versions comes out (every 28 days) the key would change.  I don't think that is the case though. 

[Louis]

I would like to clear up some confusion with the KLN 94 and updating the database.  Since there is a shortage of cards for the unit and because Bendix/King charges an extra fee to update with the cards, it is easier to use a PC laptop.  I have a Mac and was advised not to segment the hard drive to emulate a PC as it is a pain in the tail feathers to make work. So I bought a cheap reconditioned laptop and dedicated it to my database updating. If you already have a PC laptop you are in business.  The interface software is available at wingmanservices.bendixking.com and is a free 4.5 MB program that can talk to your KLN 94.  

Purchase a subscription to update your database with whatever interval you desire.  (I bought the 13 download special because I like having a database that is current so I can safely use it in an IFR environment.)

Purchase an interface cable that has a USB on one end and an 8MM jack on the other end that you can plug into the laptop and KLN 94. I found one on Ebay for $20. Just type in KLN 94 interface cable and you should get a hit.  Make sure that the PC end is compatible with plugs on your computer or you may need an adapter. 

Copy or take a picture of the SET page 3 of your KLN 94 unit which has the key on it that you will have to provide to Bendix/King when you download the update.

Download the update to your desktop or to your downloads folder. (you just have to be able to find it when you go to update) 

Connect the units and follow the prompts. 

There is a video on YouTube that has a guy updating his unit with a PC that is helpful.

The only problem that I had was having to designate the correct comm port so the units could talk to each other.  Once that was done it was a fairly painless process as there are prompts in the popup windows that address that.  Now that I have done it I should be able to replicate every month to keep the unit IFR capable. 

I hope this helps.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Louis
spelling

[lithium366]

5 hours ago, Louis said:

I would like to clear up some confusion with the KLN 94 and updating the database.  Since there is a shortage of cards for the unit and because Bendix/King charges an extra fee to update with the cards, it is easier to use a PC laptop.  I have a Mac and was advised not to segment the hard drive to emulate a PC as it is a pain in the tail feathers to make work. So I bought a cheap reconditioned laptop and dedicated it to my database updating. If you already have a PC laptop you are in business.  The interface software is available at wingmanservices.bendixking.com and is a free 4.5 MB program that can talk to your KLN 94.  

Purchase a subscription to update your database with whatever interval you desire.  (I bought the 13 download special because I like having a database that is current so I can safely use it in an IFR environment.)

Purchase an interface cable that has a USB on one end and an 8MM jack on the other end that you can plug into the laptop and KLN 94. I found one on Ebay for $20. Just type in KLN 94 interface cable and you should get a hit.  Make sure that the PC end is compatible with plugs on your computer or you may need an adapter. 

Copy or take a picture of the SET page 3 of your KLN 94 unit which has the key on it that you will have to provide to Bendix/King when you download the update.

Download the update to your desktop or to your downloads folder. (you just have to be able to find it when you go to update) 

Connect the units and follow the prompts. 

There is a video on YouTube that has a guy updating his unit with a PC that is helpful.

The only problem that I had was having to designate the correct comm port so the units could talk to each other.  Once that was done it was a fairly painless process as there are prompts in the popup windows that address that.  Now that I have done it I should be able to replicate every month to keep the unit IFR capable. 

I hope this helps.

You don’t need a PC to have Windows installed. You don’t need to do any hard drive allocations. You only need a VirtualBox emulating software and you good to go with any mac or pc. What you described is a long and expensive way: buy laptop, buy cable, make sure you have power in you hangar if that is a PC to power it up (if it is not a laptop). What I suggested is way easier for new owners: just buy a $10 card reader and install VirtualBox (it’s free). Take your data card to the comfort of your home and write the database

[Louis]

7 hours ago, lithium366 said:

You don’t need a PC to have Windows installed. You don’t need to do any hard drive allocations. You only need a VirtualBox emulating software and you good to go with any mac or pc. What you described is a long and expensive way: buy laptop, buy cable, make sure you have power in you hangar if that is a PC to power it up (if it is not a laptop). What I suggested is way easier for new owners: just buy a $10 card reader and install VirtualBox (it’s free). Take your data card to the comfort of your home and write the database

That sounds awesome. Have you gotten that method to work on the KLN 94?  I would need step by step directions not being of the programming world. Like where you buy the card reader, what model is it or part number, is there any protocol to update the card considering the key etc.  The company contracted to manage the subscriptions for Bendix King is in Puerto Rico so they are on Atlantic time and have limited hours. I believe their tech support is limited as well and it took a few letters to find my subscription.  When you said "write the database" are you saying that you can use any subscription service that has the data or the Bendix King subscription with their data interface? Thanks....

[lithium366]

13 minutes ago, Louis said:

That sounds awesome. Have you gotten that method to work on the KLN 94?  I would need step by step directions not being of the programming world. Like where you buy the card reader, what model is it or part number, is there any protocol to update the card considering the key etc.  The company contracted to manage the subscriptions for Bendix King is in Puerto Rico so they are on Atlantic time and have limited hours. I believe their tech support is limited as well and it took a few letters to find my subscription.  When you said "write the database" are you saying that you can use any subscription service that has the data or the Bendix King subscription with their data interface? Thanks....

This is the method I successfully use. You still need BK subscription. You can follow these steps: http://peter2000.co.uk/aviation/kln94-database/index.html and ask any questions along the road. 
 

You also need a VirtualBox. Download it here: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

VirtualBox is a PC emulation software. You need to install Windows 98 in it as a guest OS and follow instruction posted above. You can’t break anything other than waste money if database key doesn’t match if you use card method. I think this is a huge advantage in comparison with loading database with the cable

[Louis]

8 hours ago, lithium366 said:

This is the method I successfully use. You still need BK subscription. You can follow these steps: http://peter2000.co.uk/aviation/kln94-database/index.html and ask any questions along the road. 
 

You also need a VirtualBox. Download it here: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

VirtualBox is a PC emulation software. You need to install Windows 98 in it as a guest OS and follow instruction posted above. You can’t break anything other than waste money if database key doesn’t match if you use card method. I think this is a huge advantage in comparison with loading database with the cable

Thanks Ilya,

I take it that Peter's directions has the card reader name or model or part number. Thanks a bunch I will give it a try.

[LANCECASPER]

On 11/29/2019 at 10:16 PM, Louis said:

The database key is located on SET page 3.  It is a unique key that lives in the configuration module of your GPS.  When you download a new database from say wingmanservices.com for the KLN 94 you have to supply that key.  

The key number resides on the card not in the unit.

[Louis]

14 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

For those that nterested, PETER2000 is a friend of mine who lives in Brighton, UK.   Very techie chap.   His real name is Peter Holt.  Small world huh

I found a number of the ScanDisk SDDR-31 writers on Ebay.  Is there a way to get the the firmware on it without sending it to Bendix King or does the virtualbox take care of that?  Thanks

[Louis]

4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The key number resides on the card not in the unit.

The SET 3 page is where you get can see the key to supply to BK when you get the data download.

[lithium366]

28 minutes ago, Louis said:

I found a number of the ScanDisk SDDR-31 writers on Ebay.  Is there a way to get the the firmware on it without sending it to Bendix King or does the virtualbox take care of that?  Thanks

VirtualBox is not going to take care of anything. Firmware loading software for SDDR-31 works in Windows 98 (old PC operating system). In order to get Windows 98 running on your modern computer you need a VirtualBox - an emulating software. Your computer that is running MacOS for example (host operating system) will run VirtualBox with Windows 98 (guest operating system). ti install Windows 98 inside VirtualBox you will need to obtain a copy of Windows 98 distribution that could be a CD or an image (there are a lot of links to download an image if you google it but the only legal way is to buy it). When you have Windows 98 running inside of your host operating system you then need to install firmware loading software and SDDR-31 driver like you normally do with any other computer. Alternatively you can mail SDDR-31 to me, include a return shipping label and I will upgrade firmware for you. However chances are you probably will not know how to use it if you will not take care of firmware upgrade yourself.
 

This video shows how to install Windows 98 in VirtualBox