druidjaidan Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 So my adventure in airplane shopping continues. This time I'm looking at what looks to be a clean 66 M20F. Get to talking to the seller and he discloses that in 2013 there was a mouse nest discovered in the right corner of the passenger compartment behind the side panel and above the spar. This was discovered apparently by an avionics shop while they where installing some new equipment. Long story short, mouse urine is corrosive. I have some light details, but the jist is the avionics shop "replaced doubler P/N 210004-8 on lower spar cap". I know very little about wing spar repair other than $$$$$ and I'm not sure what exactly to make of this. It makes me nervous that it was done by some avionics shop rather than a Mooney specialist. How expensive is it likely to be to bring this to a shop for a pre buy and have it inspected. Or is this a "run away as fast as you can" type issue? /grumble The corresponding log entry, anonymized: http://imgur.com/OTdyHa0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Get some detailed pictures of the repair if possible. Sounds like they went in through a fuel tank, though, for some of the repair and obviously that is not practical for access to get pics. I don't know exactly where the area is they mentioned, but perhaps it will be visible with the side panel out and maybe the rear seat bottom removed. The verbiage in the log entry sounds standard to me, and I wouldn't necessarily rule it out as a candidate. Airplanes are repaired all the time using standard practices, and any A&P should be able to accomplish something like removing one part and installing a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druidjaidan Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yeah I know from what the seller said that viewing the repair would require removing the interior so that's a bit complicated. I expect it wouldn't be insane as part of the prebuy, but don't know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think your looking at this the wrong way. You're looking at an airplane that has actually been inspected and repaired. If you think clean logs = clean airplane you're mistaken. I would want to do a visual on the repair, but it appears to have been properly documented. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yeah I know from what the seller said that viewing the repair would require removing the interior so that's a bit complicated. I expect it wouldn't be insane as part of the prebuy, but don't know for sure. Every prebuy should include removal of the interior side panels to verify SB 208 has been completed. It should be a none issue to inspect this repair at prebuy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druidjaidan Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think your looking at this the wrong way. You're looking at an airplane that has actually been inspected and repaired. If you think clean logs = clean airplane you're mistaken. I would want to do a visual on the repair, but it appears to have been properly documented. I'm treating the logs, and any other documentation I can get as a smell test. If it smells bad it's definitely bad, if it's smells good then well it might still be bad. I also just don't know much about what to expect here. More or less, I'm looking for some more experienced advice that this looks reasonable and then I'll pay a mechanic to validate it first hand. Thankfully this plane is located in Dallas TX, so I think I know exactly where to send it for it's PPI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I agree with Ross... a good PPI should take a peak behind the interior panels anyway, and at that point it should be easy to inspect the repair. One thing when your're reading logs, entries like this one (replaced part # using new part) are one thing, but when you see cutting, splicing, etc. then you really need to check it carefully. The extruded angles are generally more susceptible to corrosion compared to the skins or webs, and some of the angles are not impossible to change out. There are enough Mooney folks in the Dallas area too that you might be able to ask or pay a modest some to go take a look as your advocate prior to committing to the expense of a relocation and PPI, or a commercial ticket for you to take a look. Parker (on this site) might be a good candidate as a CFII and former 2x Mooney owner as one example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 The right pane1 is about 8 screws one 1ower kick pane1 and about 15 minutes to take out. about the same to put back in. If the p1ane is more 1970s it wi11 have a painted tubu1ar structure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Frankly, my opinion on corrosion is that once it starts it never stops. That does not mean I would rule an aircraft out, especially with impeccable repair and inspection records. I would significantly drop my offer price since I would have to be continually (extra) vigilant for corrosion and that adds $$$ to inspections. The whole avionics shop thing with this bird disturbs me. If you told an avionics shop you were going to use your Mooney A&P to install your G1000 they would berate you for not using an avionics tech. Corrosion, especially in a Mooney, is not to be trifled with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 A localized corrosion repair due to a discrete event like mouse urine is totally different than widespread corrosion due to outside storage next to an ocean. Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Frankly, my opinion on corrosion is that once it starts it never stops. That does not mean I would rule an aircraft out, especially with impeccable repair and inspection records. I would significantly drop my offer price since I would have to be continually (extra) vigilant for corrosion and that adds $$$ to inspections. The whole avionics shop thing with this bird disturbs me. If you told an avionics shop you were going to use your Mooney A&P to install your G1000 they would berate you for not using an avionics tech. Corrosion, especially in a Mooney, is not to be trifled with. Corrosion is a fact of life. It does happen. It can often be addressed. It appears that it has in this situation. The fact that it was found tells me that the plane has at been opened up and inspected since 2013. If it was to upgrade avionics, great. I am very skeptical of perfect logs on any 30+ year old airplane. I am also skeptical of the words "corrosion free" as I would bet I could find both minor surface and/or minor filiform corrosion on most birds over 25 years old. Maybe even yours Harley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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