Top Heavy Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 I have a factory installed oxygen system in my Mooney Bravo. Does anyone have recommendations regarding the purchase of cannulas, regulators, etc.? Quote
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Hello- I happen to have two brand new sets of the Precise Flight Pilot Packs for Mooney which come with the Mooney Embroidered Carry Cases. I opened the packages when I received them to ensure everything was there and that's about it. I paid around $1000.00 for both sets together and would like to sell them as a pair. Each kit includes everything you and a passenger would need for flight with O2 including the expensive blue mask with microphone connections. Its not a fire sale but I would be willing to accept any reasonable offer as they are just sitting at home collecting dust. Email me if interested FASTFLIGHTOPTIONS@gmail.com -Nick Quote
carqwik Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Not sure why you need a regulator...it's already built in with O2 system in the Bravo....(I know because mine developed a leak last year which resulted in excess loss of oxygen while in use.). Use the Oxysaver or Oxymizer cannulas...they save lots of oxygen versus straight cannulas. Earlier posts on this subject here: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/5773-basics-for-on-board-o2-use/ Good link about oxygen use in GA planes here: http://www.aeromedix.com/blog/oxygen-for-general-aviation/ 1 Quote
chrisk Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 mhoxygen.com, and aerox.com seem to be popular. Both sell a full face mask, which you will want if going over 18,000 on a regular basis, or if you have a bit of nasal congestion. The cheaper vinyl masks work too. To effectively use your oxygen system, you need to re-fill it. Consider investing in a trans-fill setup, so you can fill your plane your self. I have found difficult and expensive to have others refill the O2 on my plane. 1 Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 mhoxygen.com, and aerox.com seem to be popular. Both sell a full face mask, which you will want if going over 18,000 on a regular basis, or if you have a bit of nasal congestion. The cheaper vinyl masks work too. To effectively use your oxygen system, you need to re-fill it. Consider investing in a trans-fill setup, so you can fill your plane your self. I have found difficult and expensive to have others refill the O2 on my plane. If you're using oxymiser cannulas and valves instead of masks, the 115cuft tank tends to last forever. A lot of money to invest to save on twice a year $40 fill. Your milage may very if it's a lot more than $40 or you fly more than 100 hours a year, I guess. Quote
rainman Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 I believe it needs repeating that you should get a pulse oximeter. The small finger sized portables work fine and can be had for $40-50. Basing your oxygen use and flow on altitude is very inaccurate. Use the pulse oximeter and keep your oxygen saturation above 92%. 2 Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 I believe it needs repeating that you should get a pulse oximeter. The small finger sized portables work fine and can be had for $40-50. Basing your oxygen use and flow on altitude is very inaccurate. Use the pulse oximeter and keep your oxygen saturation above 92%. You have a point. I always bump mine up a few thousand feet higher on the valve and never had an issue dropping below 92%. Another point, but cannulas do just fine up to FL220. I keep 92% vs 96% with a mask on. Once again, your millage may vary. And before anyone says it's illegal, point me out a FAR for part 91. Quote
Danb Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Actually I carry 2 oximeters, never know when one drops out of sight or battery fails..cheap insurance Quote
WardHolbrook Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 All you guys who are flying around in the upper teens and lower Flight Levels without ever having been through an altitude chamber course are making a dumb mistake. It's the classic example of "Just because it's legal doesn't make it smart!" If you're up above 14,000' or so you really need this training. Over the past 20 years I've attended two high altitude training courses at the University of North Dakota which involved altitude chamber "flights". Each one was a real eye-opener. They ran us up to FL250 and had us take off our masks. I was just sitting there fat, dumb, and happy with the pencil and paper making strange, illegible scribblings until they put the mask back on me. I told them that I was OK and was still good to go. It was actually pretty frightening once I came around enough to realize what my personal response was. Different people have different responses. Some people function like a ni-cad battery - they seem to doing well and then they simply go off the cliff. Others, like me just sit there fat dumb and happy with warm fuzzy feelings - totally oblivious to what's going on around them. Others I've seen crash pretty fast. You really need to have the chamber experience to see what your personal response is. It's just my opinion, but I don't think just reading about it is enough. As far as accessories go, you will want a pulse oximeter. Cannulas are only legal to FL180, above that you'd need (and want) a good quality mask. Above FL200 you'll also may want to consider a small back up bottle like this one that you can keep at your side and use to get down to a breathable altitude in the event of a failure in your main system. http://aerox.com/product/aerox-portable-oxygen-system-2-user-a-system-6-cu-ft Chamber training is readily available. I've received mine at UND at a reasonable cost and the FAA and military offers civilian chamber training at little or no cost as well. Here's a link to the FAA's course: www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_education/aerospace_physiology/ You can do an internet search for other courses and training providers, but bottom line, hypoxia is nothing to screw around with. It's one of the major pilot killers. 1 Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Cannulas are only legal to FL180, above that you'd need (and want) a good quality mask. Prove it, point out a FAR. There isn't one. Quote
chrisk Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Prove it, point out a FAR. There isn't one. FAR 23.1447 Equipment standards for oxygen dispensing units. If oxygen dispensing units are installed, the following apply: (a) There must be an individual dispensing unit for each occupant for whom supplemental oxygen is to be supplied. Each dispensing unit must: (1) Provide for effective utilization of the oxygen being delivered to the unit. (2) Be capable of being readily placed into position on the face of the user. (3) Be equipped with a suitable means to retain the unit in position on the face. [(4) If radio equipment is installed, the flightcrew oxygen dispensing units must be designed to allow the use of that equipment and to allow communication with any other required crew member while at their assigned duty station.] ( If certification for operation up to and including 18,000 feet (MSL) is requested, each oxygen dispensing unit must: (1) Cover the nose and mouth of the user; or (2) Be a nasal cannula, in which case one oxygen dispensing unit covering both the nose and mouth of the user must be available. In addition, each nasal cannula or its connecting tubing must have permanently affixed-- (i) A visible warning against smoking while in use; (ii) An illustration of the correct method of donning; and (iii) A visible warning against use with nasal obstructions or head colds with resultant nasal congestion. © If certification for operation above 18,000 feet (MSL) is requested, each oxygen dispensing unit must cover the nose and mouth of the user. [(d) For a pressurized airplane designed to operate at flight altitudes above 25,000 feet (MSL), the dispensing units must meet the following: (1) The dispensing units for passengers must be connected to an oxygen supply terminal and be immediately available to each occupant wherever seated. (2) The dispensing units for crewmembers must be automatically presented to each crewmember before the cabin pressure altitude exceeds 15,000 feet, or the units must be of the quick-donning type, connected to an oxygen supply terminal that is immediately available to crewmembers at their station. (e) If certification for operation above 30,000 feet is requested, the dispensing units for passengers must be automatically presented to each occupant before the cabin pressure altitude exceeds 15,000 feet.] (f) If an automatic dispensing unit (hose and mask, or other unit) system is installed, the crew must be provided with a manual means to make the dispensing units immediately available in the event of failure of the automatic system. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 All you guys who are flying around in the upper teens and lower Flight Levels without ever having been through an altitude chamber course are making a dumb mistake. It's the classic example of "Just because it's legal doesn't make it smart!" Why? Never been in an altitude chamber. Have been to FL220 multiple times. Having been in a chamber is not going to do anything to save my bacon if my oxygen system malfunctions, zero, nada. What saves my bacon is nervous tick of looking at my flow gauge every 60 seconds or so. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 FAR 23.1447 Equipment standards for oxygen dispensing units. If oxygen dispensing units are installed, the following apply: (a) There must be an individual dispensing unit for each occupant for whom supplemental oxygen is to be supplied. Each dispensing unit must: (1) Provide for effective utilization of the oxygen being delivered to the unit. (2) Be capable of being readily placed into position on the face of the user. (3) Be equipped with a suitable means to retain the unit in position on the face. [(4) If radio equipment is installed, the flightcrew oxygen dispensing units must be designed to allow the use of that equipment and to allow communication with any other required crew member while at their assigned duty station.] ( If certification for operation up to and including 18,000 feet (MSL) is requested, each oxygen dispensing unit must: (1) Cover the nose and mouth of the user; or (2) Be a nasal cannula, in which case one oxygen dispensing unit covering both the nose and mouth of the user must be available. In addition, each nasal cannula or its connecting tubing must have permanently affixed-- (i) A visible warning against smoking while in use; (ii) An illustration of the correct method of donning; and (iii) A visible warning against use with nasal obstructions or head colds with resultant nasal congestion. © If certification for operation above 18,000 feet (MSL) is requested, each oxygen dispensing unit must cover the nose and mouth of the user. [(d) For a pressurized airplane designed to operate at flight altitudes above 25,000 feet (MSL), the dispensing units must meet the following: (1) The dispensing units for passengers must be connected to an oxygen supply terminal and be immediately available to each occupant wherever seated. (2) The dispensing units for crewmembers must be automatically presented to each crewmember before the cabin pressure altitude exceeds 15,000 feet, or the units must be of the quick-donning type, connected to an oxygen supply terminal that is immediately available to crewmembers at their station. (e) If certification for operation above 30,000 feet is requested, the dispensing units for passengers must be automatically presented to each occupant before the cabin pressure altitude exceeds 15,000 feet.] (f) If an automatic dispensing unit (hose and mask, or other unit) system is installed, the crew must be provided with a manual means to make the dispensing units immediately available in the event of failure of the automatic system. Aircraft certification, not Part 91. The little flimsy masks that come with a Mooney are not certified by anybody for anything... Quote
WardHolbrook Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Why? Never been in an altitude chamber. Have been to FL220 multiple times. Having been in a chamber is not going to do anything to save my bacon if my oxygen system malfunctions, zero, nada. What saves my bacon is nervous tick of looking at my flow gauge every 60 seconds or so. What are your personal symptoms of hypoxia? Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 What are your personal symptoms of hypoxia? What difference does it make? Whether you start making stupid mistakes or just turn off, you'll be such as dead. Check your flow, check your blood oxygen level, do it many, many times during a flight. As to mine specifically, nothing at FL180. I can sit there for hours and get a slight headache. At FL220, I start seeing things that are not there and not seeing things that are there but not a fall off like some experience. Basically my color vision goes to shit and my brain starts making up for it. My speech gets blurry. I get a piecing headache. You don't need an altitude chamber to experience that. You need another pilot. Never been higher than that in unpressurized aircraft. FL230 and higher introduces a whole another set of problems that are simply unpredictable not just between individual humans but also individual flights. In order to use cannulas, you must be a disciplined breather, especially up high. But if you make a conscious effort not to breathe thru your mouth, you can easily stay above 92% even at FL220 or higher. Glider pilots in Europe go up to FL250 all the time without a mask. Quote
chrisk Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Aircraft certification, not Part 91. The little flimsy masks that come with a Mooney are not certified by anybody for anything... Agreed it is for certification. And the way I read this, if I am flying above 18,000 with my installed (built in) O2 system and I don't have a mask, my plane might not be airworthy (just like being over max gross). And FAR 91.7 says No person may operate a civil aircraft unless it is in airworthy condition. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Agreed it is for certification. And the way I read this, if I am flying above 18,000 with my installed (built in) O2 system and I don't have a mask, my plane might not be airworthy (just like being over max gross). And FAR 91.7 says No person may operate a civil aircraft unless it is in airworthy condition. Correct, you have to have a mask on board. Nobody says you have to use it ;-) Quote
WardHolbrook Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 What difference does it make? Whether you start making stupid mistakes or just turn off, you'll be such as dead. Check your flow, check your blood oxygen level, do it many, many times during a flight. As to mine specifically, nothing at FL180. I can sit there for hours and get a slight headache. At FL220, I start seeing things that are not there and not seeing things that are there but not a fall off like some experience. Basically my color vision goes to shit and my brain starts making up for it. My speech gets blurry. I get a piecing headache. You don't need an altitude chamber to experience that. You need another pilot. Never been higher than that in unpressurized aircraft. FL230 and higher introduces a whole another set of problems that are simply unpredictable not just between individual humans but also individual flights. In order to use cannulas, you must be a disciplined breather, especially up high. But if you make a conscious effort not to breathe thru your mouth, you can easily stay above 92% even at FL220 or higher. Glider pilots in Europe go up to FL250 all the time without a mask. Wow, seriously. You're making my point for me. Quote
chrisk Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 What are your personal symptoms of hypoxia? For me, I just start to feel like crap. I've learned this by pulling out the pulseoximeter and checking my levels. The altitude where it starts is dependent on lots of factors. Hydration seems to have an effect, as well as duration. --This last year my wife and I flew at 12,000 for 5 hours. I had O2 on , but not my wife. After 4 hours she had a headache, and didn't feel well. The pulseoximeter told the story. After 5 minutes on O2, she was fine. I've also been at 17,000 with a cannula on, and starting to feel bad. I had some swollen sinuses that day. I tried more nose breathing, but eventually switched to a mask and all was good. Again, the pulseoximeter confirmed my tell. As for masks, I have one of the blue ones with a built in mike, and a bag in front. I think it came from aerox. Anyway, I don't like the mike. And since I have a Halo head set, it is easy enough to stick the mike under the mask when needed. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Wow, seriously. You're making my point for me. So does it make me dumb taking my aircraft to FL220? Because that's what you said. I don't think it's dumb with a properly functioning oxygen system. Quote
chrisk Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Correct, you have to have a mask on board. Nobody says you have to use it ;-) Exactly! "(2) Be a nasal cannula, in which case one oxygen dispensing unit covering both the nose and mouth of the user must be available." And I happen to agree that you don't need an altitude chamber. Just another pilot. As long a both of you don't go off of O2 at the same time, it shouldn't be an issue. With that said, I'd like to visit an altitude chamber some day, and get the instruction that goes along with it. 1 Quote
WardHolbrook Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 So does it make me dumb taking my aircraft to FL220? Because that's what you said. I don't think it's dumb with a properly functioning oxygen system. That's not at all what I was saying. Quote
Danb Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Ward give it up...that's why there were so many hypoxia induced accidents in the last few yrs. like I said I'm on the stupid side carrying 2 oximeters, having entra cannulas and extra masks ready in one of the ports I don't use...plus actually checking my O2 saturation approx every 5 minutes at the most, I never let it go below 95%. Quote
Joe Zuffoletto Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 Why? Never been in an altitude chamber. Have been to FL220 multiple times. Having been in a chamber is not going to do anything to save my bacon if my oxygen system malfunctions, zero, nada. What saves my bacon is nervous tick of looking at my flow gauge every 60 seconds or so. +1. Never been in an altitude chamber, and I've logged over 500 hours at FL180 and up in turbo Mooneys without incident. Like Andy, I monitor my flow meter and my pulse oximeter like a hawk. I'd like to experience an altitude chamber, but I'm not going to ground myself until I do, given that I have other reliable and objective means to monitor my high altitude O2 health. Quote
Top Heavy Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Posted January 21, 2015 Not sure why you need a regulator...it's already built in with O2 system in the Bravo....(I know because mine developed a leak last year which resulted in excess loss of oxygen while in use.). Use the Oxysaver or Oxymizer cannulas...they save lots of oxygen versus straight cannulas. Earlier posts on this subject here: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/5773-basics-for-on-board-o2-use/ Good link about oxygen use in GA planes here: http://www.aeromedix.com/blog/oxygen-for-general-aviation/ Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.