Oil analysis

[Marauder]

I would like to know of any first hand experience of metal being found on a screen where the filter was clean.

As I suspect we all should know, the (required) 100 hour/annuals inspections, even at the best shops, have been known to be dangerous. Anytime we r/r something there is the real possiblilty that we will do harm. E.g., I had my plane at the avionics shop this week forXponder/Altimeter/Static System certification. The Xponder, new 2 years ago, which had never failed in any way, was invisible to ATC after being tested.

Ah, the old "break it if it works problem". I have had several of these over the years. Forgetting to attach a connector, plumb it back together wrong and my personal favorite "break something else not related to the original work" and then not tell me about it.

[WardHolbrook]

Personally, I don't loose any sleep over stuff like this. If it becomes a problem you simply need to change who does your maintenance. Over the years I've come up with a list of go to guys and gurus for everything I've flown - airframes, engines and avionics. If your shop or technician breaks something and then doesn't mention it to you it's time for change. No shop or mechanic will be perfect, they're no different than you or me. Sometimes, the local mechanic or avionics shop isn't your best bet for whatever it is that we're flying, but most of us are cheapskates at heart and will keep trying to pound square pegs into round holes because we don't want to spend a nickle more on maintenance than absolutely necessary.

[jetdriven]

Wonder what the oil analysis was at?. I'm not convinced oil analysis will predict a in flight engine failure...if I could find a shop that would do a test for $10 Id probably do it then.

Byron,

Your oil analysis getting better on that factory motor yet?

NOPE. Check this.  Lycoming is still stonewaling me.

N201EQ-101014.pdf

[aaronk25]

Gosh that is awful. Well not that it's any reconciliation but sharing your experience with Lycoming cost them one factory motor for sure as I was ready to place the order but went with Jewell instead because of this.

[RobertGary1]

I've spoken with several of the most respected Mooney shops about this and each said they only pull the screen if the filter shows something or the oil analysis shows something. Its your plane, you can do what you want, but just because an A&P doesn't pull the screen at oil change doesn't make him a bad A&P. I'd argue that having some stranger change your oil may make you a bad owner but that's another point.

 

If painting your toe nails before you fly makes you feel safer; feel free to do that too.

 

-Robert

[N601RX]

The problem with that is that large pieces never make it to the filter.  One of the members on here had a piston oil nozzle come unscrewed and drop into the sump.  They found it in the screen.  The filter and oil analysis was clean.

[RobertGary1]

The problem with that is that large pieces never make it to the filter.  One of the members on here had a piston oil nozzle come unscrewed and drop into the sump.  They found it in the screen.  The filter and oil analysis was clean.

Not knocking anyone who chooses to pull the screen. Strange things happen. But just pointing out that its probably not fair to discredit an A&P who doesn't pull it. Otherwise the most respected Mooney service centers would be discounted. 

 

-Robert

[PTK]

Not knocking anyone who chooses to pull the screen. Strange things happen. But just pointing out that its probably not fair to discredit an A&P who doesn't pull it. Otherwise the most respected Mooney service centers would be discounted. 

 

-Robert

 Yes...and your point is...?

 

Their reputation or what's fair to whom is none of my concern! My priority is to be fair to myself and my engine!

 

Lycoming SB 480E (Mandatory Service Bulletin) is very clear:

 

A. At 25 hours after the first replacement/screen cleaning – oil change, filter replacement or pressure screen cleaning and oil sump suction screen check for new, remanufactured or newly overhauled engines and for engines with any newly installed cylinders.

B. 25-Hour interval – oil change, pressure screen cleaning, and oil sump suction screen check for all engines employing a pressure screen system.

C. 50-Hour interval – oil change and oil filter replacement and suction screen check for all engines using full-flow filtration system (except for engine models TIO-540-AF1A and -AF1B, which require 25 hour interval changes).

...

II. Oil Filter/Screen Content Inspection.

A. Using the following methods, check for premature or excessive engine component wear, indicated by the presence of metal particles, shavings, or flakes in the oil filter element or screens.

1. Oil Filter.

a. Using approved method (eg., for full-flow, spin-on filters, use Champion Tool CT-470 or Airwolf Cutter AFC-470), open the filter.

b. Check condition of the oil from the filter for signs of metal contamination.

c. Remove the paper element from the filter.

d. Carefully unfold the paper element and examine the material trapped in the filter.

2. Pressure Screen. If engine employs a pressure screen system, check the screen for metal particles.

3. Oil Sump Suction Screen.

After draining oil, remove the suction screen from the oil sump and check for metal particles.

[RobertGary1]

 Yes...and your point is...?

 

Their reputation or what's fair to whom is none of my concern! My priority is to be fair to myself and my engine!

 

From Lycoming SB 480E: (Mandatory Service Bulletin.)

 

A. At 25 hours after the first replacement/screen cleaning – oil change, filter replacement or pressure screen cleaning and oil sump suction screen check for new, remanufactured or newly overhauled engines and for engines with any newly installed cylinders.

B. 25-Hour interval – oil change, pressure screen cleaning, and oil sump suction screen check for all engines employing a pressure screen system.

C. 50-Hour interval – oil change and oil filter replacement and suction screen check for all engines using full-flow filtration system (except for engine models TIO-540-AF1A and -AF1B, which require 25 hour interval changes).

 

Are you flying part 135?

 

-Robert

[mooniac15u]

I'd argue that having some stranger change your oil may make you a bad owner but that's another point.

-Robert

You could argue that but it still wouldn't be true.

Make your own choices but don't trash people for making different ones.

[RobertGary1]

You could argue that but it still wouldn't be true.

Make your own choices but don't trash people for making different ones.

 

 

I think you mixed up users. I was the one who said exactly what you just said. Don't trash people who choose not to pull it. At the top left of each post there is a user name. That's usually the best way to determine who is posting which post.

 

-Robert

[N601RX]

With a little practice it takes less than 10 minutes to remove and replace it.  Why not?

[PTK]

Are you flying part 135?

 

-Robert

 

Relevance?

[RobertGary1]

Relevance?

 

Part 135 flyers are required to adhere to mandatory SBs. Otherwise its the option of the owner. So in part 91 its your choice.

 

-Robert

[mooniac15u]

I think you mixed up users. I was the one who said exactly what you just said. Don't trash people who choose not to pull it. At the top left of each post there is a user name. That's usually the best way to determine who is posting which post.

-Robert

I didn't mix up users. Your comment sounded like you were saying it was bad to let someone else change your oil. If that wasn't what you were saying then please accept my apology.

[PTK]

Part 135 flyers are required to adhere to mandatory SBs. Otherwise its the option of the owner. So in part 91 its your choice.

 

-Robert

That is incorrect.

 

Although it is true that Part 135 are required to follow them to the letter and part 91 gives you some leeway, it does not give you the option to not do it.

 

Lycoming's position is to follow it as posted period. Regardless if it's 135 or 91.

[RobertGary1]

Negative. Dispite what Lycoming may wish SB's are not mandatory for part 91.

-Robert

[N601RX]

Lycomings position has no legal bearing.  The FAA has repeatedly said they are not required for part 91 unless invoked by an AD or specifically called for in other FAA approved manuals such an overhaul manual.

[PTK]

Negative. Dispite what Lycoming may wish SB's are not mandatory for part 91.

-Robert

When was the last time before an oil nozzle or something decided to come loose in the engine it paused and asked for part 135 or 91 status?

 

.

[RobertGary1]

When was the last time before an oil nozzle or something decided to come loose in the engine it paused and asked for part 135 or 91 status?

 

.

 

A point not related to the discussion.

 

-Robert

[PTK]

A point not related to the discussion.

 

-Robert

I say it's very related!

 

Does an engine care if it's 135 or 91?

 

My life is just as valuable as a part 135's!

[RobertGary1]

Does an engine care if it's 135 or 91?

 

Are you trying to bolster your contention that SB's are mandatory for part 91?

 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

I say it's very related!

 

Does an engine care if it's 135 or 91?

 

My life is just as valuable as a part 135's!

 

Its a straw man because no one has said its a bad idea to pull the screen. 

 

-Robert