garytex

Gee Whiz, I asked the question, forgot I asked, got a good answer, didn't check back, was perusing old posts, wondered again, asked again, which put me by DaV8or's answer. Duh! Thanks Dave, I'll try to keep up a little better in the future. So the gear's hard to swing, huh?

Anybody play that game on a pre-J? I haven't seen it mentioned, so I'm guessing one doesn't just head to the junk yard, then bolt set on.

Good advise

In the Austin area, some of the non-chain auto parts houses have been induced to carry airplane oils, available from their distributers-reasonable price, too.

In carb engines the fuel-air charges will be affected by inertia and G-loading. Have you ever noticed the air in a car roll around in a turn--same thing

Another trick is to only wipe in a fore and aft direction on the window. No matter how careful we are, there are going to be scratches. Vertical ones don't seem to throw the sun in your eyes as much as horizontal ones. Additionally, flushing dust off the window with water and a bare hand first works. The hand can feel when the water looses its lubricity and disengage.

Lycoming cylinders are steel, and break in easily at 75%. The 100% guys are trying to break old straight or channel chrome barrels in which it is harder to get the wear necessary to polish down the ring. They are trying to get very high break mean cylinder pressures. The high pressures actually get under the ring and press it forcefully against the cyl. wall, and polish off a tiny bit of the slightly angled face of the ring, making a good contact interface. The nickel ceramic bores from ECI break in so easy that I know of successful break ins that used as little as 50% of power, and are as tight as a drum. When one hears of break in problems with IO 360 engines in our Mooneys and also in Cardinals usually there are reported "hot spots" which come from poor baffling. Uneven heat distribution in the barrel causes differential expansion, and here is the kicker, I think that the true cause is un-round barrels. The rings can't follow the out of round contours and lose contact with the cylinder walls, and the cylinder promptly glazes over in that area, the observed "hot spot", so the rings then can't ever break, and they pump oil. It isn't the heat per se, it is the change in form that accompanies it. I assume that you and your mechanic have exhibited obsessive-compulsive disorder in tending to your new baffling for your engine, OATs have come down a little, fire it up and go. 75% works. Watch the cht's, sometimes you actually can see them come down in the first hour or so on steel cylinders. It is fun to watch. Good luck Gary

I think 80df diff is something worth puzzling over. Not necessarily a big deal, but sometimes little "does not follow" indicators can be your engine trying to talk to you. Maybe it is saying, "my EGT probes are not equidistant from the valve, and now that the burns are shorter, it makes a difference in the readings" Maybe it is saying "I have a slight intake leak at the #1 tube flange" or, I have high impedance on a spark plug or I have a partially blocked injector" or any number of things. It is in my experience always worth trying to understand when an engine speaks. Frequently it is a "Oh thats what it was", after the fact understanding, and sometimes it's nothing, but 80df dif. would cause me to cock my ears. Is the dif between 3 cyls all pretty much the same and one out in left field? That would be more pressing, and easier to diagnose. There is a point around 1600df where the stainless steel in our exhausts looses around 90% of it's tensile strength. In the situation where poorly distributed large fuel globule charges from badly jetted and venturied carburetors do not completely burn in the cylinder, EGT'S can get up in the mid to high 1500s as the fuel burns in the muffler. I owned one such, fouled up by the Marvel Schnabler multi piece venturi AD, and was welding cracks every annual. I did the carb at the same time as an engine overhaul, and didn't recognize the effect of the new venturi and jet for a couple years. A new multi hole jet and a properly configured venturi brought EGTs down 100 df and gave a 50 -75 bump in static rpm. High absolute temp in EGT's can be another communication, which may or may not have information content that is important. Part of the fun of airplanes is the "inquiring minds want to know" part. You don't want to think about work or whatever all the time anyhow, do you? Gary

My bitter experience is that exhaust heat trashes hydraulic hoses then lights the leaking fluid.

The problem with the jug was a warped intake valve. What warps an INTAKE valve? Maybe I'll ask the group.

Job: Ouch! Any idea why your cam went? "Personally, I'd go with OH'ed and save the new until you hit TBO or your bottom end goes...." Yeah, thats how the cow is going to eat the cabbage. I have a good cylinder overhauler, and a mechanic that has played the game enough times to get all that done without much input on my part and my ac back in the air promptly, so promptly that I didn't have time to perseverate over the decision, as I like to do."It all happened so fast, it's just a blur". And of course, with overhauled cylinders, which I am biased against based on my small barrel Continental jug experiences of the '90s, back when those heads were cast out of floor sweepings and a few pop tops, on their fifth tbo run and cracked at the drop of the hat. I should just shut up and go with the flow, be glad I have a good mechanic and cylinder overhauller who are trying to do the right thing, and get out of their way. Gary

All the POH on my F is MPH, so I put MPH on my outside ring. Gary

320, thats great. It will be interesting to see if the sole difference is the timing. The spacers are to set the back baffle plate off the rear of #3 and 4 heads? How thick? How far back is the plate off the face of the head? What do you think of LOP climbs? They will certainly recuce CHTs. I have doubts about the big pull when things are hot. Maybe nose down a little, reduce MP for a while, let things cool (but for how long and how much?) a little, do the pull, and feed MP back in?

Yeah, my mechanic thought mine is a little tight there. But I didn't do anything about it. I may wish I had, as I wil be breaking in a new #3, which runs hottest ordinarily. I'm going to fly it AUS to Del Rio early in the morning tue, at high % power, and hose the fuel to it, all hoping to keep the cyl cool enough to keep the power up. It wouold probably stay cool at 8.5 gal LOP, I wonder how that would work. As a joking aside, maybe the excess fuel will cause enough oil dilution to break the rings quickly, and then I can fly merily on my way. Actually Ram and others think that going full rich in the last part of landing with cool CHTs may actually cause some wierd ring wear due to oil dilution. But that is in low power operation. How's your break in comming? Any cooler?

Ooooo those look like every old ac owners bad worry confirmation.

The cylinders I am replacing had baffelig with no wrap fore and aft as part of the SWTA mods, which may have yielded hot spots. Who knows. Thanks for your response. Gary

My F seems to lift off, collect itself for a while, (accelerate) then climb. But thats also a reflection of how I fly it. Byron, patience with your new engine. Let it break a little more before you judge. There is probably more there in a little time. Gary

Every plane I've ever owned (C-170, Grumman Cheetah, and M-20F)was faster both indicated and true in winter, low or high.

Oh it's nice to hear quotes from "The Jerk" When I do that around the office, the 30 somethings look at me like I've grown a third head. "The what?" they say, and don't think extra work would be any fun at all.

Dave The same story for years is "they are considering it" and there have been several "they"s. I hadn't considered the 'couldn't do better on price' side of it. But that might be really valid. Just how many angle valve engines are there. Not that many 4-bangers. Just us, the retract Cardinals, Arrows and a few Sierras. Aren't lots of the 540 series injected? Or are they injected parallel valve? Everyone seems to do OK on the now 50% less than they were compared to the monopolistic price Lycoming charged for jugs when they were single source. I just assumed that we were being treated as a high margin line sort of purchaser that keeps the business solvent, like the 40% margin on a shirt in a sporting goods store where the guns turn 7%. In that case, there would be plenty of margin to bring the product to market, and still profit. I'm thinking of the excellent small barrel Continental jug that Superior brought out in the early '90s. A much much better product than a new Continental, at a much lower price. For an engine that hadn't been put in an airframe to sell new since the 1967 Cessna 172. But maybe there were more O-300s, O-200s in Cessna 150s and C-145s out there than I am imagining. On further consideration, probably a lot more, and they sure needed better jugs than they were getting from the OH exchange pool at that time. I do know that everybody flocked to them. But I think you are right, and I think we're stuck with single source for the foreseeable future. Damn the bad luck. Gary

ECI has a new angle valve jug with roller rockers they are selling into the experimental market. Big X preceeding the part number, and $1900. We just can't catch a break. They say that the certification process is too expensive. I wonder if I could use them under the "owner supplied part" rule. He says jokingly. Gary

Thanks. My plane lives outside too. I hate it, but not as much as I hate $450/mo hangars. Gary

Hank, that's an especially well done cover. Next time you are out to the plane and can get the particulars, please post. Thanks, Gary

Byron Thanks for the update. It's been just the Tiniest Little Bit hot lately, that is probably lowering IAS some. I saw 100df at 1000 feet yesterday afternoon. CHT's will come down after the rings seat. Could the leading edge of the prop profile have been slightly tweaked by dressing at OH? Let things settle a while, and let it cool off some before you reach a conclusion. I have been disappointed with a freshly OH'D engine in the middle of summer that was magically reborn in October with 50 hours on it and OAT's 30df cooler. Rob Isn't that a wonderfully well done "how to" from Maxwell? Thanks for sharing it. All good, he suggests aligning the engine before the SWTA cowl. I wonder if that was done on mine. I've got a little droop. Is the engine off, or the cowl? There is a little wiggle room in the cowl, and a reference to something solid would be nice.

Scott Your thinking seems just right for your engine and jugs. I have had other expenses bringing this plane to minimum acceptable condition that are approaching 25% of the purchase price, and I am not a profligate spender, and the plane wasn't in too bad a shape to start with. That, and the sequential nature of the failures has got me into the mole bashing mode, and I am not very comfortable with that game. I also have some doubts about running the bottom end past (or even making) TBO. If the same judgement was used in decision making for the bottom as the component selection for the top at the last OH, then to me, the bottom is suspect also. I think I will keep this plane a long while, and expect to go through an overhaul cycle. I don't think I want to spend the money right now for an all new cyl. top, although I think that would be a good way to structure the process, and I'm letting 9 Gs make that decision for me. Also if the cam goes, then those would be toast. If new cyls were a G each, instead of 2 and change, thats probably what I would do. Damn single source angle valve cyls. Thanks for your insight. Gary PS I was up your way this spring, flew to Russel for some PD hunting near the thriving megalopolis of Waldo, KS. Pretty country, nice people, we don't see much Midwestern Americana like that, especially in deep S. Texas. I really enjoyed the whole experience. Those 900 lb. stone fenceposts everywhere sent a shiver down my spine, though. Man I hate to think what misery it took to produce, transport and set them with hand drills, freezing water, and horses. I became much too familiar with cedar posts in my youth, but those stone posts take the cake. I literally couldn't look at them without admiring the fortitude of, and cringing at the effort spent by the men that settled that country. Thats some sturdy stock that you all come from up there.