AndyFromCB

How is it any different than Premier pilot wise? Both are single pilot certified, both come with identical V speeds/wing loading on the higher side of small jet spectrum. That's my biggest beef with this airplane. Small tires, no effective lift dump system, high landing speed means long runways. If you can handle the HondaJet, you can pretty much handle anything, so why bother with a what is pretty much a "useless" airplane. I call it useless because: it has no useful load (so you cannot load wife, 2.5 kids, dogs, bikes, skis), it simply will not depart Aspen/Telluride/Jackson Hole with any fuel onboard (that's the reason why most people own private jets, vacation homes). I agree with you on the second point completely, but the owner flown dynamics are a bit different. Most owner flown jet aircraft are purchased with after-tax money, hence are most likely bought used after 5 years of depreciation and tax benefits have taken its course. All jet aircraft need to make business sense in order to eventually end up being owner flown. There is almost no market for owner flown jet aircraft to begin with (as Eclipse and Cessna found out with Mustang). Once you start adding up the running costs of owning a jet plus time commitment (remember that if you can afford it, your time is worth well in excess of $5000 an hour or more), even a small one (I did calculations on a Mustang thru CJ3), crew becomes another drop in the bucket. All and all, it costs almost the same to fly a brand new Mustang as it does to fly a CJ3 per nm basis, think a minimum of $300K a year before capital costs. It will cost you that much whether it's flying or sitting on the ground due to program costs and program minimums (usually 150 hours a year on smaller jets, 250 a year once you move past the CJ range). And that's why small jet market flounders and never really took off to begin with, as an owner pilot you're much better off with a PC12, TBM or M600, even a King Air 200. If you've got the money to own/operate a jet, you most likely don't have time to train properly and another $5 million to move on up to real cabin and real hot/high performance is a drop in the bucket for you. You really need to look at the performance numbers to realize how useless these aircraft are when it's warm outside and you're not at sea level. It's not a gradual decline like a piston single. Many will simply not be able to depart with temperatures much over standard with the same cargo you brought in. You see this all the time in Aspen, where the next stop is KAPA to pick up fuel. Never heard of a rock ingested on a tail mounted engine either. Intakes are usually right over the wings anyway. Supposedly it's more quiet and the fuselage does not need to taper towards the back so the cabin is larger. But it makes no sense on the HondaJet as the only thing you're sticking in that cabin are blowup dolls with a full fuel useful load of 400lb. However you slice it, it was an exercise in engineering for no apparent advantage.

So it took Honda 15 more years to create a Beech Premier IA, other than of course the much larger cabin, much better range, climb rate and high speed cruise and pretty much identical overall nm/lb if you want to go as slow as the Hondajet (440knots at 1000lb FL410 vs 380knots at 600lb max cruise at FL430, Premier will do 370knots at 660lb an hour at long range cruise). The V1 and Vref speeds are actually lower on the swept wing Premier. Thanks, but not thanks (not that I can afford either, but if I could, I'd take a used Premier, $3 million difference buys a lot of fuel). The cabin size difference really is day and night for less than 10 gallons an hour more. Neither will depart Aspen/Jackson Hole with any fuel with seats full. I truly do not see what Honda did here and how it's competitive.

Best part, this video will still be applicable to piston aircraft engines one hundred years from now ;-) Of course, Lycoming, now part of SoftTwitFaceGoo corporation, will have the video and all references and copies of overhaul manuals destroyed worldwide under new powers granted to it under TPP (that's Trans Planetary Partnership, your all you alls thinking I'm trying to stir up another political thread) and charge you $343763436572506 for base overhaul in addition to a monthly intellectual property fee of $4656246. Good news is that in order to enforce the monthly fee, your ignition will now be electronic (I'm kidding of course, it will still be old fashioned mags, now with gears made of recycled egg cartons, with a 10 hour inspection interval). A separate, satellite linked module, requiring two extra batteries and a third standby alternator will be connected to the landing gear switch, refusing to lower it until VerizonPornHub verifies your payment status.

You are so full of shit it's not even funny. If your stall horn is chirping at Vx at sea level (Florida), no matter how hot, you've got some serious issues with your pitot-static system or you're pulling Gs. Yours truly has flown a 1969 short wing Piper Arrow (last overhaul was 1982, I highly doubt that bird made 180hp at sea level on a perfect day, much less the advertised 200hp) , at gross, from almost every CO airport including Leadville and never, not once was I close to stalling once I accelerated to Vx in ground effect. I've climbed away at 200fpm but never even came close to what you are describing. You mean you were severely over gross in the Skyhawk (4 people in a 172 puts you overgross with no fuel aboard), not having issues with Vx. Maybe if you interpolated your Vx for the overgross conditions you would have been just fine without your AOA gizmo. Once again, you are full of shit. Plenty of airplanes, including the Voyager, climbed away on just Vx and Vy alone, without your bullshit. Including the King Air flight I took today with a 83 year pilot that has more hours in more hardware (including SR71) than you can ever dream to achieve. The flight was done by the book, by indicated airspeed like the POH calls for. If it was't, I'd fire the pilot on the spot. I was in the right seat. I verified 50knots, airspeed alive, I called V1, we climbed away, made to Kansas City and Des Moines and back to Omaha just fine by airspeed alone. I don't think we ever banked more than 15 degrees either. The old fellow prides himself on keeping the ship upright and the passengers happy. He can plan ahead so he doesn't have to bank. Do you know what KA350 safety record in US of A. Zero crashes. No AOA sensor on the PL21 (best system ever created for flight management, I love copy and paste, G1000 in a TBM is a joke vs ProLine 21). It does come with aural radar altimeter. Much more useful than any AOA gadget and this it on an airplane with a 12 or 13knot difference at vRef between heavy and light. If you're not a vRef on final(+5/-0 IIRC), you go around. Not one crashed so far being flown by IAS.

So the usual, don't be too stupid to fly. You either get it before you solo, or you don't. AOA, airspeed, etc, don't really matter unless we introduce motion simulator training like airlines do aka rote learning. You can either think on the "fly" (no pun intended), or you cannot. Airlines don't succeed because pilots think so I'll just stick to what I've done for past 17 years and stay alive no matter what the young kids from NYC say. For me, all landings will be flown by MP/torque aka set it and forget it. I don't need no AOA sensor or airspeed indicator. I know exactly what they would be showing if I was looking.

There you go again pushing it.

Never. What's the point? It was a traveling machine, not a trainer.

The story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this thread are fictitious. No identification with actual persons, places, buildings, and products is intended or should be inferred. No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

All I know is the baggage didn't make it. Tells me all I need to know about this Sully fellow.

If you say reliable IFR ride around Great Lakes region, I say TKS. Also,

Anthony, have you ever actually made a single, unambiguous, unqualified statement in your entire life? Just wondering ;-)

Making videos for us to argue about would be my take...Chia pet is still unimpressed...

I'm not seeing an AOA probe on the nose anywhere in this video. I wonder how they managed...

For all you alls claiming you can stall at any speed, I found a speed above which you can safely do whatever you want to do in the pattern without exceeding design parameters of your long body mooney and it's 82.6knots as per Section II, Limitations, your load factor limit with flaps down is 2g. I feel better already, for a little while I thought I was going to have hang my hat after 17 years in the air, being I could just stall at any speed and leave my chia pet without a Dad.

It works wonders on a Citation, or any jet, where the climb speed spread between bottom and top of the altitude range is rather large. Once again, what is on a Mooney? 5knots? I understand we're all cheap here, but it's going to take you a long, long time to recover the cost of the gizmo by maximizing your Xy and getting an extra 15fpm from your climbs. If your life depends on extra 15fpm, you're doing it wrong. In that case, I'd stick to something that will slam into the trees at 45mph, not 85...

I'm willing to bet a grand the fellow flying that aircraft has a SAC card in his wallet. I'm willing to bet 201er doesn't.

92.5knots in a long body with flaps up, 80 with flaps down, never slow down below 100knots, until established on final, and you never have to worry about it. No AOA indicator required, no thinking required. Pilots are like emergency room surgeons, thinking while operating is detrimental to outcomes. There is plenty of time to think when not holding the yoke or scalpel, but in action, follow flow charts. Especially in emergency when one is already working with half the equipment available. Or maybe flow charts are just for STUPID pilots and/or surgeons. P.S. With 1/2 mile final, she will slow down down just fine from 100knots to between 70 and 75 over the fence with 4inch power reduction. Like I said before, leave 20inches of MP in a Bravo and you don't even have to look at your airspeed until after final turn unless we're talking about landing somewhere in KS or WY with 30knot+ headwind. And if that's the case, leave it at 24. Or use 18, 20, 22, 24 for each 10 knots your hear on ATIS.

He doesn't usually do IPCs, but when he does, he just shoots the ILS inverted.

My agenda is simple: When I see people doing steep turns close to the ground, I think about my next insurance renewal, because I know how the story eventually ends. It always end the same way, hole in the ground, "great" news coverage for GA and higher rates.

I assume you are referring to me. Well, what I said is 100% correct: within certain parameters, an aircraft cannot stall, if that was not the case, each time you fly, you would be playing Russian roulette. Stalls are not some sort of a random event. They occur at a specific angle of attack, which can be approximated by IAS, angle of bank and G-load. Correct me if I am wrong. So a M20M, in a 3 degree descent, wings level, flaps and gear down, simply will not stall below a certain speed, as listed in the good book. You don't need an STC for that, you have a POH for that, it's included in the base package. Stalls are not some sort of unpredictable, magical event, like you seem always claim. 17 years of flying here, not once have I stalled an aircraft that was not of purpose. Without any fancy gizmos. Without needing to look at my IAS most of the time until final. I know the aircraft I fly, I know the power settings, I get ATIS, do a quick calculation of headwind and know exactly how much MP it will take to maintain a certain airspeed, +/-2 knots down on final. It's not that complicated. Our corporate King Air pilot has a mental, 3D torque table in his head to the point that I've never seen him move the throttle from final approach point to over the fence when he goes idle. He just knows where the aircraft will end up at once things stabilize. Like I said, you all make it sound so complicated, depending on gizmos. I depend on math and procedure. As to the comments about the capabilities of our little GA aircraft and berating pilots that don't push things to the max and prefer flying like airlines do, just look at airline safety record vs ours. Hard to kill yourself flying from one ILS to another. This isn't some sort of a video game for me, this is about transporting myself, my family, my friends and my coworkers as safely as possible, not playing energy management games close to the ground. If I needed to do a steep approach in the mooney, I has speed brakes for that. Now I know why insurance rates for turbine equipment are so much lower than they are for pistons.

So what happens if you $800 made in china with bicycle bearings angle of attack probe gets stuck? I fly by airspeed and I would not be in trouble because I would not be doing this. If I overshoot that much, I'll go around for another try. Per POH, I am aware of my margins up to 45 degrees of bank, with flaps and gear down, at gross, that airspeed is 70 knots, so I never get below 90knots until established on final and never exceed 30 degrees. If I keep on flying that way, I don't think I'll get in trouble, but to each their own. Airspeed works just fine. The airplane will not slow down below 90knots at 20 inches of MP as long as it's trimmed down for 3 degrees down. I have never seen it slower than 90knots in base to final turn.

Correct, But light or heavy, you will be at complete stop somewhere around 2500ft mark without heavy breaking, even with 30gallons of fuel and just the pilot. I never flew the Bravo into shorter runway, so 75knots just works in the airplane, 1500 feet heavy, 2500 feet light. The less thinking that I do about basics of flying, the higher my survival chances as a pilot, I like expand my energy on navigation, weather, traffic, etc. Have I adjusted the speed before, of course, depending on conditions, but I still fly stabilized ILS like approaches, because I'm a crappy pilot, I know I'm a crappy pilot. Airlines have a lot of crappy pilots and yet they manage, because they don't play tricks on final. They fly vRef, 3 degrees down. If I have to fly a pattern, I'll fly it the same way, each time, not play tricks with AOA and energy management. I'm not that quick on my feet, at least I don't like playing that game in real life (that's for simulators). I watched your video, I don't fly enough to fly like you do, and even if I did fly enough, I still wouldn't fly like you do. Too steep, too close to the ground, too sudden power changes, this is not an approach any of my passengers would appreciate. If I have to steepen an approach, I'll use speed brakes. Like I said, I know I'm a crappy pilot all the time, but you know what, even the greatest pilots have crappy days. If I want to play bush pilot, I'll do it in a fat, light loaded wing, like a Husky where mistakes close to the ground don't mean instant death in a fireball.

So let me get this straight, you will be flying by AOA, so that means you will be doing the turn at around 68 to 75knots. I will be flying by MP, so that means I will be doing the turn at about 100knots. How is your AOA sensor going to help you remove your head from your ass if you are G loading the aircraft? At least I stand a small chance at 100knots that my head will suddenly slip out from my posterior as I lose 25knots loading the plane. The truth is, that neither of us is going to die, because our heads are not in our asses during the turn from base to final. And if you head is already in your posterior, then no gizmo will help you. Well, that a lie, Garmin's ESP will. But that's because it will perform the removal all by itself. Gizmos are fine, basic airmanship is better. Basic airmanship, combined with ESP is even better. It's already been proven that Glass and Gizmos don't do anything unless they simply remove the pilot from the equation as and when needed. Good pilot doesn't need the gizmos, and the gizmos give false sense of security to crappy pilots. What happens if the display suddenly burns out mid turn ;-) What's your AOA then? As long as I have power available, it really doesn't matter to me. I don't fly pitch, I aim for a touchdown point and if need be, I'll drag it in with power. I fly every approach like I fly an ILS, with power. I have flown a sudden glider 3 times in my life, cannot say I was a fan. So AOA allows you to be more precise and fly more efficiently, which is great, if that's what's required in a specific situation, such as short runways, obstacles, etc. But it still requires you not keep your head in your behind. But for an average pilot, flying an average GA aircraft, from a 5000 foot runway that's clear on both ends, to another one just like that, it doesn't buy much. No Mooney pilot ever died maintaining 1G, flying 75knots and keeping the turns under 30 degrees in the pattern. If you can't remember that, them how are you going to remember what the various colors on your AOA mean? Anyways, time for me join the Cessna forum. I have yet to find a way to stall the 206 with VGs. Just won't happen, it just mushes down hill.

It controls the angle I care about, the one between me and terra firma. 20 inches of manifold pressure in a Bravo, flaps down, 3 degrees down on flight director and I don't care about AOA. The aircraft will not stall under this condition, I don't care what you do it. It will be doing about 100knots descending at about 500fpm. It will not stall if you don't G load it. So don't G load it.