David Mazer

I load the ice and water after the unit is in the plane and drain it before removing the unit, if I remove it at all. Never had any significant spilage but to get the most water out during draining I have to lean into the baggage compartment and lift the unit a little to get all the water to one corner (I use a siphon instead of the pump so there is no power needed and it is actually faster because I use a large tube).

I've heard ATC note that their radar isn't really optimized to weather and so they can't be as precise.

WHen I came back to flying I tried to use Sunstate for an intensive IFR refresher and found it to be rather disorganized and nothing more than a typical FBO flightschool advertising an accelerated course rather than an accelerated flightschool. That was about 5 years ago so things may have changed but I would look into it carefully. I seem to recal a Mooney specific instructor in Buford GA that might be another choice.

Thanks for the information guys. Very helpful. I am passing it on as you get it to me.

First, the IA in no way thought this was normal or made sense. His experience with Mooneys is growing but not tremendous and asked if I had ever heard of it or if I knew where I could ask. Now that the IA's reputation has been defended, no, there is no issue in the air. There is no indication there is water in either tank and it is always on turning in the same direction, right. Fuel quantity is not an issue. I don't know if it depends on the tank being used and I will pass on that thought. Thanks for the feedback. Any other possibilities? Anybody ever heard of this before?

An IA I know has been asked by a 252 owner about a rough engine while turing to the right while taxiing. The owner claims he was told a rough engine or engine stalling during taxi turns was/is a common problem with Mooneys. I've never experienced it and haven't noticed any comments about it on this forum. Are any of you long experienced Mooney owners aware of any such phenomenom, the cause and solution if it exists? Thanks.

I've been using an electronic checklist for some time now and it has worked out great. Checklister XP is a Windows based product that is very simple and fast. As I complete a section (i.e., preflight) I click on a tab and it compresses that section bringing the next section below it into view. It took a little while to get used to it but I use it every time so I must prefer it.

This is exactly what I did.

I think Florida is a big state and where you are on it makes a huge difference to corrosion. I believe the coasts are more prone to corrosion and I live middle-ish in the Orlando area. I've been down here since 96 and the only car corrosion I've had was a car I brought down from Cleveland that rusted from the salt there. I've had this plane since 06 and not one spot of corrosion has shown up and I don't use Corrosion X. I honestly don't notice any salt issues, feel, residue, etc. Bottom line, it depends and I think an inspection is the only real answer.

It is a long trip but it wouldn't be too often. If I'm lucky, a couple times a year. TKS would be useful and the quote I received was closer to $35 but that doesn't include other stuff like moving the plane back and forth for installation and the commercial flights and hotels. You know, stuff. So, I figure closer to $40. The decision not to change was made before I did most of the upgrades in paint, interior, and panel. Living in FL, TKS is always something that would be nice occasionally but not really a big deal (unless I'm flying back and forth to UT). A guy right across from me makes the trip back and forth to UT all the time (4-6 x a year) he does it in a Cirrus SR22 with TKS so surely I could occasionally.

As you already know, I didn't end up making the change from Rocket to Bravo. Ultimately, it didn't make sense. The cost of non-FIKI TKS is about $40,000 after all is said and done so it is waiting until it makes sense for me to install and take the hits on money, useful load, and performance. We keep toying with the idea of a place in Utah and I've told my wife she needs to include the price of the TKS upgrade in any price for the real estate!

Does the electric trim make it easier to hand fly? I don't know but I use the electric for big changes and by hand for small changes. It is a nice tool to have. Which plane in discussion doesn't have electric trim? My 252 Rocket certainly does. There used to be a significant difference in cost between the 231 and the 252 Rocket but I'm not sure it is worth it or that it continues. I prefer the 24 v system of the 252 but I prefer the manual cowl flaps of the 231. I didn't know the rear seat of the 231 was a bench seat. The ability to take out one or both rear seats has come in handy from time to time. I don't have personal experience in a Bravo but considered selling mine for a TKS Bravo at one point. When I discussed this with the Daytona Mooney shop they told me I would never be happy in a Bravo after flying the Rocket. Fact or fiction? I have no idea but the was this MSC's opinion.

I called Aspen about this before SNF. The first person to whom I spoke didn't even know what ADS-B was. The second said they didn't have the ability to use the Garmin stuff because Garmin wouldn't let them. Since then, nothing.

As you can see from my ID, I agree.

Seth, get the unlimited funds and the jet!

Without trying to be too critical of Seth, his strategy is a great recipe for dehydration and diminished capacity. Unfortunately, we don't have bladders like frogs since they can reabsorb water if they get dehydrated from their bladders. In addition, we need to produce urine regardless of our fluid intake. A further loss of fluids, called insensible loss, occurs from breathing and through the skin (think sweat). The best way to keep hydrated and extend your range and maintain your faculties at your highest level is to drink small amounts on a regular basis trying to just replace the amount of urine being produced and replacing insensible loss. A few sips of water every 10 -15 min is likely to produce the best results. Slugging down water is fine to replete after dehydration but will likely over-shoot and cause your body to create urine faster which, since we aren't the aforementioned frogs, is unrecoverable and, worse, forces other needs contrary to the stated goal of greater duration. Not drinking anything will extend your range but diminish your ability to fly well, a primary concern IMHO, and may cause other problems like a urinary tract infection or kidney damage. Kidney damage is rare and very unlikely under these conditions unless one has underlying kidney disease already and not know it. Considering the ubiquitous autopilot, urine bags work great with the appropriate company on board. That solves the range and potential dehydration issue all at the same time. Just knowing the bag is available is often enough to eliminate the psychologically generated need to go and extends your range. They are cheap, small, work well considering the other facilities available (not), and readily available. Sorry, I just felt I had to chime in about this because of the potential damage dehydration can cause in flight and after. David

When I purchased my plane with a 1200 hr TSIO 540 it used about a qt every 2-3 hrs. I was told that was typical and okay. My friend Coy Jacobs got a hold of my plane and when he returned it it was using 1-2 qts/hr! After a few hours the consumption declined closer to previous requirements but not as good as BC (before Coy). The engine was rebuilt at the next annual by Zephyr Hills and I haven't ever put in a qt of oil between oil changes yet (30 hr changes). Not one. I have no idea how much oil I use per hr and it is great to say that. Currently using Phillips XC and Camgaurd.

It is my understanding that the Rocket lower cowl is the same as a 252. Only the upper cowl is modified. The damage to the cowl flap motor occurs when the lower cowl is installed and the cowl flap rods are in the open position and the cowl jams them up, shearing the gears or breaking the shaft. Personally, I'm taking the word of my IA that is a common cause of the damage. That makes some sense considering the gears/shaft is a common cause of the failure as opposed to an electrical issue but I can't say that I "know" this is correct from personal experience just from what I'm told by experienced individuals. I do know that my problems occurred after my lower cowl was removed and re-installed by an avionics shop with limited experience with Mooney 252 cowls but I couldn't say for sure they are the culprits.

Manual operation is extremely hard. I have tried multiple iterations with limited success. The replacement motor will work but it is hard to install and easy to break again if the lower cowl is installed incorrectly. Something very easy to do. It is likely that it will break again if you allow someone else to deal with the cowl. I have flown with a floppy cowl flap without any real issues except a required reduction in climb speed at about 16,000 ft for a moment or two. Otherwise, never a problem with temperatures. Good luck. My odessy has been painful.

Wow. Those all looked great. Anybody know if any used parts area available for an M20K? I think I would prefer to try to restore parts that aren't on the plane first and then replace what I have when/if it all goes well.

I always load ice and water with my unit already in the baggage compartment. It is too heavy and awkward to do it any other way. But, it really isn't a big deal to put ice in it since I have just one really large chunk of ice in which I imbed a rope handle. I also have small hand hold indentations along the bottom of the ice to make handling easier. When I purchased my unit I also had a problem with the cord being too short. It isn't really difficult to get a cigarette lighter outlet extension but the ArcticAir people sent me an extension for their cord without charge. My unit goes on when the master is on so I often immediately turn the master on while I get ready to start the engine. I have two really large batteries so it isn't an issue and the plane is cooled off immediately. I have never found ice/gel packs to work nearly as well as ice and I have been able to extend the duration of cooling by using a solid 20 lb block of ice and crushed ice around it is I really want maximum effect. I can tell it is cooling for about an hour depending on the OAT (the higher the OAT, the shorter the duration of course). The big blocks of ice take a couple days to freeze at about -5 degrees F in my large chest freezer so I tend to create 3 or 4 of them as inventory so I'm never without.

Exceptional. Enjoy her well.

Just a thought. If you are making the entire assembly outside the cooler, why can't you offer multiple sizes depending on the persons needs. A short body Mooney pilot might want the smallest possible and a long body Mooney pilot might want the largest.

So glad you are doing better than I on this. Gives me hope.

35k for the OH doesn't include the removal, shipping, and re-installation. Better think more like 45-48k for a Zephyr OH. At least that is what it cost me.