sleepingsquirrel

Elvira, the most fun you can have watching a girl with her clothes on! I like Mooneys too.

Glad your experience had a great outcome! Thanks for telling me that all my training never really included "What do you do if the engine WON'T stop!" You could just fly all the fuel off then do what I'm sure we all taught ad nauseum ,land without power, but in a Mooney no telling where you would wind up . (Squirrels get dizzy flying in circles) Now you have me thinking "Johnson bar , gear up , gear down, reliable; Why is it so loose? Cycle ,up, down, no airspeed change. Where is the gear? The Johnson bar is in the back seat, but where is the gear???? Thanks again for a terrific story with a happy ending! You give "Aviate,navigate,communicate" style and a new word; "Aviate,navigate,communicate, GRAVITATE"

It seems counter productive to add VGs behind the stall strips. It defeats their purpose. The summary did tell one thing, that the stall was more wicked from a higher AOA with VGs. I'm thinking that if one has an older smooth wing Mooney (flush rivets) One could get the boundry layer to trip with the right paint job. My Mooney just needs a full checker board painted from the wing root to about the end of the flaps. It will look so cool upside down!

This is for the OP,I haven't slept since this thread, I did find something from real life experience with VGs here. http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_cruise_wide_screen.pdf http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_stall_wide_screen.pdf I"m making a correction to this: "Leaving bird poop,smashed bugs, on the leading edge will do as much TO HURT KEEPING the boundry layer attached as vortex generators at the speeds Mooneys are operating."

Whoa! Did I miss something? Just put my planes in the hangar for the front to move through. 52 MPH sustained gusts. Mooney is safe , 150 safe , I hope the rapid temperature change after the front passed doesn't shock cool my engines. Back to my favorite pass time, squirrel dreams.

Probably , just like deploying Mooney spoilers while inverted, rates of climb like a rocket ship!

hypothetically , If I were going to experiment with the vortex generators ,I would only put them on the outboard sections of the wings. This could give aileron control a boost as the Mooney approaches stall and the stall strips do their job. I'm also of the mind that VG s on the fuselage at the transition from cabin to tail cone might be helpful. Prop wash energy is already wasted and recovery of some of that energy by VGs to keep flow attached could possibly help cruise speed. It could also keep turbulence from reducing rudder and elevator effectiveness at higher angles of attack. Caution : Vortex generator technology is cheap, easily temporarily attached , and could be fatal if improperly used. Which leads to my next question: Will putting VGs on the bottom of the Mooney wing improve its inverted flight performance? Right now it's pretty bad, so I don't see how it could hurt.

Quote: aviatoreb

Aircraft Spruce has several examples of DIY vortex generators for far less money than $1400. The great hope for three blade propeller types is that there are vortex generators for your props! this could actually make the three blade prop as efficient as a two blade propeller! I put vortex generators on the hood (bonnet ) of my 1976 Midget once. It was cool looking and without NASA rocket science to support performance increases, I did get more attention from the chicks! Lear jet/ vortex generator=MG Midget/ vortex generator/1000= Chick magnet I'm still thinking that hail damage(dimpling) could provide just as much boundry layer control as round rivet heads as vortex generators. (later Mooneys have round rivets , I'll bet just about where laminar flow was seen to become seperated) I think that things seen as perfomance enhancers on HIGH SPEED aircraft i.e. winglets,vortex generators,flush rivets, find their way to GA because they look sexy and fast because FAST airplanes have them. Leaving bird poop,smashed bugs, on the leading edge will do as much to keep the boundry layer attached as vortex generators at the speeds Mooneys are operating. I once saw a clipped wing Cub with end plates ? This was before jets had winglets. Remember , there is no such thing as a HAIRLESS flying squirrel, insects have vortex generators, but as these are much smaller than our Mooneys, they operate in air that appears much stickier to them than at our R number. They need turbulent flow to reduce drag. I'm betting that vortex generators are seen on some airplanes in our realm of flight because of poor airfoil selection in the first place. It's a cheap fix instead of retooling/redesigning. I did consider putting them on but I've been married now for 24 years and my wife doesn't think I need a chick magnet. I reserve the right to eat crow, or change my mind, all statements above have an element of truth, but how much is a can of Mooney sub atomic dimpling wax worth?

Can you put one of these on, without putting the aircraft on jacks, without crashing?

Anyone care to pony up? Maybe the Chinese just did. Nothing like getting the old out of the way in a lower acuity setting (building by hand in a labor intensive market) to allow automation to move in here. I somehow see a win win . Mooney maintains solvency selling a tried and true design in a market I believe poised for expansion. Automated assembly with globally produced parts could be the new Mooney. That is until the U.S. produced composite Mooney replaces the steel , aluminum, Mooney (all us old people) seem to love. The new U.S GA pilots will look back at this technology as we look at the wood wing A models.

I'm late to the conversation but I suspect GA in China would be advanced twenty to thirty years with what we consider an old design (old technology). Some third world countries are using technology far advanced like cell phones and cell infrastructure because they NEVER had any land line technology to hold them back. They were able to jump directly into the future. Chinas' growing industrial complex and economic growth is probably in line with Japans' post war development. Chinas' parts for Mooney ,TCM,etc. would probably match my fifty year old Mooney in quality and durability just perfectly. Considering their economy of scale they could produce affordable Cessna, Mooney and Contential parts which match perfectly the U.S. machines of thirty years ago. Considering the average age of U.S. aircraft at about 40 years , it appears they will have a ready made market for parts as they grow their GA fleet with Mooneys ,Cessnas, and Cirrus. The U.S. is probably maturing to resemble post war Europe. You know $10/gallon av gas, restrictive governmental regulation, somewhat flatlined for growth in industry, a more service oriented economy. All things considered computer technology should cost far more than it does , it doesn't because we can buy the finished product produced by cheap labor elsewhere. Ask yourself, has your kid never needed a newer computer ? They don't care where it came from! Maybe cheap affordable airplanes produced in China will be just as welcome here as the cheap electronic gizmos Japan produced after WWII. My first transistor radio was Japanese, and we all know what happened after that.

Quote: HopePilot I don't get why we don't have someone who can do this in California?

Quote: DaV8or I'm 5' 11" and the standard set up in my F is OK, but I am thinking I might look into the 1-1/2" extensions. I would love to sit in somebody's plane that has these.

Roger! What better judgement could a pilot make than his own. Only he knows all the circumstances /details for his particular situation. Sometimes our gut knows best, and there is some science to support that! I fly with my Grand daughter in the C150 because my confidence is highest there. Kids can sense these things in us as well, that is until we educate them. Only I will know when my ability in the Mooney would let me be comfortable with her there. So in the strongest possible way I agree with you!

Thanks for the lead, this link is what I needed to see. It helps to know what the minimum requirement is . Seems my aircraft are OK with the Mooneys' belly strobe being "nice to have". I tend to let well enough alone, but wasn't sure if I was legal. Thanks again! http://www.whelen.com/_AVIATION/catalog/Anit-Collision%20Systems.pdf

Does a red flashing beacon qualify as an "anti collision" light for night flying? Not nearly as high tech as strobe style lights but would it meet the requirement? Am I still catching up on changes from the mid seventies, or just youthful ignorance about legal issues then. It seems the , then,high tech strobes were optional. A "rotating beacon" was desirable and always listed in the trade-a -plane ads. It seemed perfectly legal to fly with just position lights at night but if you had a red rotating beacon you were sexy! I use mine (strobes) to remind me, once out of the plane and with the door locked that I forgot something important. (wired to the master). I am aware that they should be turned off to fly IFR but I don't do that.

Hi Scott, Can I still use my "prayer for landing" in case all that technical stuff runs afoul of the laws of physics? Thanks for pointing out that noise I've been hearing near touchdown , is that the stall warning horn that sounds like a sheep bleating? I knew it wasn't the gear warning because I have been able to roll back to my tiedown and when I look under the wing I can see those black rubber thingies touching the ground.

I can see the grin on your face ! The same grin I got when I soloed my M20B.

Quote: maropers

Hey! no fair! He's already asked the three blade propeller question! After this round of landing a Mooney which I followed on the AOPA site some weeks ago,(many of the same players) , I'd rather go the bladder vs sealed tanks route ! Better yet , is GatorAid (original flavor) GREEN or YELLOW? I've decided that my lack of knowledge on these subjects make me want to go work on my boat where there are as many ways to SAIL a boat improperly as to LAND a Mooney improperly. I have adopted a "prayer for landing" as part of my check list. Nobody thought of that!

Hi Larry, Welcome to Mooney ownership , nice looking ship. Regardless of the technique, landing a MOONEY GETS EVERYONES ATTENTION. I'm new to the Mooney airframe and have spent time reading everything I can find in order to improve my landings. They are becoming very consistant for me. I have about 25 hours now and you will find as I did that there are as many ways to land a Mooney as there are to skin a cat. Some of them have condsiderable more pucker factor than others. I was seriously debriefing myself after every take off/landing at first, making me tell myself everything that happened , and then asking,"why did that happen?" Just remember the only landing that anyone will see you do is the last WORST one, at least that is the one they like to talk about. You can make a hundred greasers but I'm here to tell you you will be singled out for the one ballooner , floater, longer than necessary,or "that's not the way I do it" landing. You obviously know how to fly and land and take off. Now it's just about style. It didn't take me long to find out about the MOONEYs' notorious anti-gravity module. Just look for the switch ,it's usually unmarked . UP for take off DOWN for landing. This was immediately helpful to me: http://www.mooneyland.com/Properly%20Landing%20a%20Mooney.htm

One thing to keep in mind is that everything you see in an oil filter is NOT circulating through the system! It has been stopped by the filter and the reason is to keep it from becoming part of the abrasive mix of carbon & other combustion products which are circulating all the time between oil and filter changes. Where it is coming from is a matter which can be detemined by obsevation and/or spectrum analysis. The important thing is ,does it increase in volume or diminish between oil changes? One could just change the filter more frequently to keep an eye on the material for more or less.Is the engine giving other symptoms? I've no real experience but have changed a lot of oil in engines which just keep on running and running . Wear is normal and the filter is helpful keeping the wear particles from causing abnormal wear. Cutting open the filter will most always show something and like an analysis the trending could be the most important thing to watch. YMMV but I'm not going to look for a new engine everytime an A&P shows me something in the oil fliter. I'm going to take the holistic approach and weigh all the indicators. "Your engine may produce a small amount of metal which will be seen in the filter element and this can be classed as normal. There is no defined level which is normal for an engine - each engine is different - but there will be a quantity which is usual for your engine." http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/aeroshell/technical_talk/techart16_30071550.html This is my opinion and comfort level, not applicable in every case.

I thought about the offer for the cover but putting it on an M20B would be just wrong. Seriously I'm thinking about painting a dotted line around the fuselage just behind my baggage compartment with those yellow arrows ( RESCUE) but mine will say "cut here, add 3 feet for TLS".

Good find , I have that in my favorites right now to keep for review. I found this which might be helpful ,condsidering the long body Mooneys. Seems to uphold many comments here about landing the Bravo. When we talk about landings in the Ovation or any of the new generation long body Mooneys (M20M, M20R or M20S) we must talk about the landing attitude. As I mentioned earlier, the long bodies sit with about a positive 4.5 degrees pitch attitude on the ground. Pilots moving into the newer aircraft from one of the shorter length Mooneys (M20K or earlier) will immediately notice this difference when they first sit in the cockpit. Now thinking about sight picture and pitch attitude during the flare for landing, most aircraft will need about + 5-degrees during the round out to keep the nose wheel off the runway until the mains are on. This works quite well for all the Mooneys except the Ovation, Eagle or Bravo. With an almost 5-degree nose up attitude sitting level, the pitch attitude is going to need to be higher during landing in order to land on the main wheels before the nose. One of the biggest transition problems I have found for pilots moving into these long Mooneys is the landing – more specifically, landing on the nose first or all three simultaneously. Either action can quickly lead to a porpoise and the outcome of this isn't very pretty. Pilot must develop a different sight picture when landing these new Mooneys. Where 5-degrees worked before, 8-degrees is necessary now. This just takes practice and the help of a competent instructor familiar with long-body Mooneys. As with all Mooneys, airspeed control during the final approach is key. Fly too fast and the airplane will float on a cushion of air forever. Fly the correct approach speed (1.3 V Stall for the weight and flap configuration) on short final, have the airplane configured for landing and trimmed and the touchdown is normal. If we use a target altitude of 50 feet above the runway to achieve this, then the last 50 feet is very easy. If we are still chasing the airspeed or trim at 50 feet AGL, then a go around might be advised in order to set it up again. Seldom do good landings come from bad approaches!