RJBrown

Being left discharged is bad for the battery and can damage it as stated here. Being discharged in freezing conditions can kill it immediately. When a lead acid battery is discharged the specifit gravity of the electrolyte drops and like water it can freeze. If the fluid freezes it can swell the case and crush the plates.

This shows how far prices have dropped. 7 years ago I sold a very similar plane for $175,000. Mine was a 1980 with new paint and interior, monroy tanks, speed brakes and a EDM. No HSI, no gps, no stormscope and a C-41 auto pilot. Stock radios and an old loran. At the time it had about 2000 TT and 750 on the engine. Now is the time to buy. I think that value will only go up from here.

The point of choosing a sales contract can be important. The form you use can save you from a hassle or worse. This is the form I chose. http://www.1st-of-pryor.com/aircraft_purchase.htm When I purchased my first plane it was treated like a car purchase. I found it in the local paper called the owner and went to see it. We flew it together from his airport home to APA. After Arapahoe Aero looked it over I bought it. We were both lucky. Both the seller and I were aboveboard and honest. He sold a plane I bought my first plane, it was a great day! When I sold the plane I sold it through a broker and to a lawyer. This was not his first plane and I had representation. Once again the deal went smoothly as both parties were honest with each other. Difference was the deal was structured in a more complete manner. We were both protected by a contract. I learned a lot between my purchase and sale of N231NH. What I learned included the careful steps and thorough documentation used in my attempt to buy N808MS. Without the protection of a properly executed contract I could have lost a lot more than the cost of a trip to Dallas. My advise is to use a contract and don't be as trusting and naive as I was the first time around. Buying a plane is different than buying a car. The biggest difference is that there is not a title and lien procedure to protect the buyer. It is much safer to buy a car than a plane. Use a contract, do a title search, use an escrow agent and be careful. Skipping a pre buy can cost you some surprises. Skipping this stuff can cost you the plane.

When I sold my Rocket Top Gun in Stockton did the pre buy. I was impressed with the organization. When I bought the MSE a year ago I dealt with First Pryority Bank of Pryor Oklahoma. The loan approval was quick and painless. They have a sales contract form that I used. I had a contract on a TLS that ended up un airworthy in a lot of ways. When the seller would not stand behind the plane and backed out of the deal the contract we used required him to cover the cost of prebuy. It cost me a trip to Dallas to inspect the plane but not a dime on the failed prebuy. When I chose the MSE I ended up not needing the financing but still used Pryority to escrow the deal. They treated me so well that I left the excess funds there for an engine reserve fund. Robert Guderian is who helped me.

After my last plane was painted I did the interior mostly by myself. The seats were pulled and sent to a freind of mine that does my antique cars for reupholstery. I pulled all the interior panels and repaired them. On any areas that were cracked I took 1 oz fiberglass cloth and worked it into the plastic on the backside with MEK. The mek softens the plastic and the light fiberglass cloth embeds into the plastic. The glass cloth was from a hobby shop. It was meant to be used to cover R/C aircraft. Any place that I felt might use the reinforcement got it. Any area that was cracked and had pieces missing got the fiberglass treatment on the back and then I used a product called Plast-Aid to fill the voids on the front. Plast-Aid comes as 2 plastic tubes. One contains a powdered plastic material and the other a liquid solvent. Mixed together it forms a bondo like putty that is plastic and melts into the panel material permanently. Bondo is too rigid if used it could later crack and fall off. SEM also makes a product called Flexible Ure-Weld part# 39406 that I have found usefull. It is a two part product that remains flexible after curing and can be sanded and painted. The paint I used was made by SEM. It is made to paint plastic. It is available in many colors and it sticks permanently to plastic. I used Airtex carpet it was easy to install and fit perfectly. New stainless screws were used to attach the refurbished panels. I replanced the windlace around the door and luggage door. I don't remember the source. The side trim pieces were made to attach without screws showing. After the leather was cut I took the 4 pieces to a shop that had computer controlled embroiderly machines for the "MOONEY" in the headrests and the "305 Rocket" in the side panels. We chose stock letters for the embroidery. For an additional cost almost any artwork could be set up and embroidered on. The shop I used puts logos and lettering on shirts, caps and jackets ion the normal course of business.

Not a fan of any type of business partnership. Seen too many end nastier than a divorce. Fact of the matter is the partnership WILL end. Partners WILL disagree. Like good fences make good neighbors. The better and more complete the partnership agreement is the better the partnership will be. That said I have seen some partnerships become friendships that outlast the original partnership. The people factor is always most important.

Quote: ehscott I also noticed MP dropped to 33" above 7,000 feet and assume that is normal even with a turbocharged plane. I guess I never paid that much attention before to my MP on climbout so maybe this is a normal drop.

One beautiful Saturday morning a few years ago my wife suggested a flight down to Santa Fe for lunch. Heading south out of Centennial over Colorado Springs I always quietly monitor Springs approach as I fly over the top of their airspace, if you talk to them they want to send you 30 mile out over the plains. I heard approach hand off a Baron to Pueblo approach. Once clear of the Springs I called Pueblo approach just after they handed off the Baron to center to pick up flight following. Once on with center they kept calling out traffic @ 12 o clock and 500 below same direction and closing. Well in short order we walked right past that Baron and flew on to Santa Fe. After landing, tying down, waiting for the girls to hit the bathroom we got in the airport shuttle. As the shuttle pulled away I saw the Baron taxi in. After a delightful walk around the square and a delicious lunch we called for the shuttle to bring us back to the airport. As my wife and 2 daughters took their bathroom breaks I went out on the ramp to get ready. Parked right next to me was the Baron. We talked as we waited for our girls. I felt kinda bad for him. This was his first flight out of the local area in his new to him Baron. First flight out in his big brawny twin he could not believe some little single walked right past as he tried to keep up. As we talked he didn't believe I was just cruising at 75% cause he had tried to stay ahead. That Rocket left him dumbfounded. I did more with 305HP than he could with 600.

In retrospect I guess I was a little trusting. The oil temp was the first indication of a problem. My 231 oil temp gauge was the first gauge to go high in a climb so it was always in the scan. High temp and slightly low pressure in cruise caught my attention. I immediatly pulled back on the power and screwed back the prop rpm. I notified center and headed to the closest airport. Temps had dropped a bit and pressure stayed above the yellow. I figured that before the bottom end let go the prop would speed up. The prop governor never wavered. After landing the engine oil did not smell "hot". If you have ever smelled an engine with a rod knock you would know what I mean. I uncowled the engine to check for leaks and had another pilot run it up I only found oily exhast. There were no services there and Lewiston was only 31 miles away. After the first hop and no problems I felt OK to continue on one airport at a time.

I flew N231NH as a stock 231 for 100 hour. Did not have and did not miss speedbrakes. After she was converted to a 305 Rocket I flew for a few years without them. All the time wishing they were there. Had them installed when she was repainted. LOVE them. Now that I fly a MSE I feel no need to run out and install them. I would like to have them they do add quite a bit of flexability but won't spend the money needed at this point. Talk about a slam dunk. Denver center brings you over larks intersection at or above 12,000' and then heads your toward Falcon VOR as if you are landing at KDEN. Not untill they hand me off to approach do I get lower. At that point I am less than 10 mile to the outer marker cassi NDB with 4000' to lose. They do it every time. In the J it is doable caus I know what is coming. In the rocket without speedbrakes I just planned on calling a miss early and setting up properly for the ILS. With speedbrakes the drama was gone. They are nice for gusty landings, no flaps just speedbrakes. They make a difference in the mountains. Like crossing the top of the ski hill at Steamboat and then heading down. I can see why someone in Tucson has no need. Landing over the flatlands I want all that energy back in the decent and would only pop the brakes in the pattern. In the rocket 45% power was the min setting they want you to use and at 137.5HP I carried more power in the decent than my MSE cruises at now.

The posts that refer to the plane as just a chunk of aluminum are 100% correct. As a pilot we should always remember this. I had just left KSFF (Spokane WA) heading home to Denver. I was above 12,000' about 80 miles out when I noticed low oil pressure and high oil temp in my M20K N231NH. Nearest airport was Orofino ID (S-68), a 2500" long field at an elevation of 1005'. I arrived over the airport at 9500'. The next airport was Lewiston ID (KLWS) 31 miles west. Being out of glide range of Lewiston I chose to circle and land at Orofino. The airport is in a bend of the river and both ends extend over water. The surrounding hills are between 3500' and 4500'. I figured I had one shot at landing. I decided that if anything went wrong the plane belonged to the insurance company and all I was going to save was my own sorry behind. On approach I had the seat as far back as I could and still reach the pedals. My seat belt was tight and the right seat was empty. I popped the door on final and was resigned to swimming if needed. The landing was uneventful. Insured properly an off airport landing (crash) would only cost me $500, my deductible. Survivability is all that matters. Having already decided that the plane was expendable freed me up mentally. It allowed me to concentrate on the landing nothing else. She had blown 6 quarts of oil overboard in about a half hour. I took 3 hops topping the oil at each to get back to Spokane. Where she was left eventually being converted to a 305 Rocket there.

I think everyone on this board are being way too nice in their assesment on this guy. Sounds to me as if someone is trying to take advantage of an unfortunate situation. This is the 3rd time I tried to respond to this thread. The first 2 times I erased my posting for fear of being sued for libel by the offending FBO. That said St George is messed up right now. The airport is slated to close as soon as the new one is ready. This is leaving everyone there in limbo.

The inch a minute is for TURBOs only. That is what Rocket reccomended and thats how I flew it. On the normal Lycomings. I just nose over and keep the speed up as long as possible. Adjusting the mixture to keep from going too lean as I decend. Where I am based I land at 5880' so I am never real high on the power. At lower altitudes I keep it at 20" in the decent.

Sounds like a great plane!!! I miss my turbo. She looked a lot like this one.

I would just send it in to Garmin. A year ago My 295 would not funtion on internal batteries. I called Garmin and they said to send it in with no batteries or accesories. It came back with new batteries, a fresh database and a new antennae. There was a note about what they fixed and NO bill. (Maybe they want to sell me a 430) In your case I would want to send in the cables though.

Seven years ago I sold a 1980 M-20K with the rocket conversion. 2000TT, 700SFOH. Long range tanks. Speed brakes, EDM700, a stock panel with a KNS80 and a old Loran. It had new paint and interior and sold for $175000. Today that same plane will be down to $135 or so if it has a 430 in place of the KNS80. While looking to replace it last year the planes that were selling were 10-15 below Vref. Today's market is down a lot. Something about your airplane must make it stand out from the rest to even get sold. Original paint and interior and a runout engine do make it stand out. Now that you are asking 125 I bet you are kicking yourself for not taking the 123 you turned down. There are two patterns of sellers out there: First are those living in the past that are drug screaming and yelling into the present. It takes over a year of not selling but they either come down and sell or decide to keep it. The other type are those that are aware of how bad the market is and market at the right price. These birds sell fairly quick. Before I bought my current bird I had a contract on a TLS. All the seller had to do was honor the contract and I would own it now. Problem was it failed the prebuy miserably and I insisted that it be made airworthy. The seller got pissy and backed out. He then HAD to get it airworthy any way. The last price I saw on it was less than a break even on the deal he killed. There is a market, planes do sell. It is just a lot less than a lot think.

This may sound brutal but I believe it to be honest. "I have rejected offers of 120 and 123 which may have been the only real offers I've had, who knows. " In today's market rejecting OVER VREF offers is not being a reasonable seller. " Within reason, I am trying to find the price at which it sells, not the price that makes me feel good." You found where the market is and wont sell. There are a lot like you out there. They want what it brought 2-3 years ago. The market is the market and you rejected not one but 2 REASONABLE offers. Save yourself the cost of an ad and all the serious buyers time and just park it until the market rebounds or your ego dissapates.

See if you can try one before you have it installed. They are great for cruise adjustments but can complicate the "feel" of the throttle while landing. I havent used one much but it felt uncomfortable while landing. Is there someone with more experiance using one that can comment. The few times I have flown with one just did not feel right.

Quote: Mcstealth Carefull though, I believe some A&P's/IA's use R&R to also signify Remove and REPAIR without any distiction between Repair and Replace. It can be very misleading!

My old plane had no brakes on the right. Tough to let someone new in the left to see what is going on. My MSE has both. I don't think it adds retail value and it will add maintenance cost later. I'd rather have them but would not pay to add them. The only advantage to not having them came when I sold my last bird. The buyer sat left seat for the flight to close the deal. There was a pretty good cross wind on landing. He kind of panicked at about 150 feet from touchdown. Threw up his hands and said TAKE IT. Landing was a little sideways and he stabbed the brakes flat spotting the right tire through most of the cords. He did not even know the tire was now square on one side. We taxied in bump bump bump and he was clueless. After we tied it down and he started away from her I showed him the tire. At first he blamed me until I pointed out that he was the only one with brakes. Points out a bad habit (for a Mooney) that those with castering nosewheels get in to. He had a Grumman that steered with brakes only. Being used to not having a steerable nose wheel he burned off a tire trying to get the plane straight. I am based at APA and usually land on a 10,000' runway. I make a point of not using the brakes unless I have a reason to. I also try to not use the nose wheel as long as possible. Now that I pay for the tires and brakes I want them to last as long as they can.

When I ran VREF on this one I came up about the same. This bird has been for sale and overpriced for a long time. Current market is below VREF and a run-out would be even further below market. It would take over $100,000 to bring this one up to current. Needs: engine, paint, interior and more. If you spent another 100 and then tried to sell it it would not bring 180. The phrase that caught my eye was "Plumbed for O2". All these came with O2 is the bottle missing? What other deferred maintenance is there? I agree with Alan there has to be better value out there.

My 90 MSE is as delivered and has a 983 usefull with the 2900# gross. Plane came with both standby vac pump and WX-1000. Only entry in the W&B is for the gross upgrade. LOVE the rear seat!! The LR seatback stays home a lot. Last Saturday my 10 year old son and I went for a spin. We pulled the rear seat cushion up and he sat on it so he could see over the panel. Velcro can be a wonderful thing.

Parker quoted from the Air Power site. That price is sitting on the floor in a box. This is their list of included components. Alternator: (2 ALTS.) REAR MOUNTED 12 VOLT & 80 AMPS. Controller: AIRESEARCH Exhaust System: YES Harness: TCM 5 MM SHIELDED (.750-20 THD. CONNECTION) Horsepower: 210 Magneto: TCM S6LSC-25P (PRESSURIZED) IMPULSE COUPLING Oil Cooler: CORE 9.72 INCHES LONG Oil Filter: INTEGRAL WITH OIL PUMP Overboost Valve: AIRESEARCH Sparkplug: 18MM X .750-20 THD. CONN. FAA APPROVED Starter: 12 VOLTS Tachometer Drive: TACHOMETER DRIVE COVER Turbocharger: AIRESEARCH MODEL TA04 Voltage: 12 Wastegate: AIRESEARCH Aircraft Application: Mooney 252 The labor and other needed parts will run the final price higher.

In Colorado they watch the FAA records and about a year later the send a questionaire. 30 days later they send a bill. They ask 4 questions Where did you take delivery? Where is it hangered? Is it for Business use? Is it for personal use? They also ask for a copy of the sales contract. Use tax is paid once on the purchase of the plane. It is like sales tax, sort of. If you trade in a plane you get a bill for only the difference. If you sell and then buy you pay on the whole purchase. Colorado has no other taxes on personal use airplanes. No registration fees of any kind. I would reccomend basing it at the cheepest place untill the taxes were settled. I don't believe that a change of address to or within Co raises a call from the tax man. I sold my last plane to someone in California. I delivered the plane to him in Nevada. The plane then stayed in Nevada for a certain length of time. I believe it was more than 90 days. He then did not owe the "sales" tax. 9% of 175000 was $15,500. There were rules that made it legal for him to avoid the tax. If I were in California I would research this before buying.

In Colorado they watch the FAA records and about a year later the send a questionaire. 30 days later they send a bill. They ask 4 questions Where did you take delivery? Where is it hangered? Is it for Business use? Is it for personal use? They also ask for a copy of the sales contract. Use tax is paid once on the purchase of the plane. It is like sales tax, sort of. If you trade in a plane you get a bill for only the difference. If you sell and then buy you pay on the whole purchase. Colorado has no other taxes on personal use airplanes. No registration fees of any kind. I would reccomend basing it at the cheepest place untill the taxes were settled. I don't believe that a change of address to or within Co raises a call from the tax man. I sold my last plane to someone in California. I delivered the plane to him in Nevada. The plane then stayed in Nevada for a certain length of time. I believe it was more than 90 days. He then did not owe the "sales" tax. 9% of 175000 was $15,500. There were rules that made it legal for him to avoid the tax. If I were in California I would research this before buying.