testwest

Your climb speed is a very strong driver of efficiency. Just looking at the prop alone: M20J, making 90% power at Vy (86 KIAS), 3000 feet, 2600 rpm, standard day, thrust horsepower is around 135hp. Increasing climb speed to 115 KIAS (Vz) while keeping everything else the same, increases thrust horsepower to 149, due to increased prop efficiency. So the same fuel flow gets you more thrust horsepower, if you just fly faster. I don't do LOP climb because I want as much power to convert to altitude as I can while maintaining the forward IAS. What KSMooniac and I use is WOT/2700 RPM, Target EGT, 115 KIAS until the airplane won't climb 500 fpm, then 500 fpm until speed drops to Vy. This is the Vz profile. Try a back-to-back CAFE score evaluation of an LOP climb versus a Vz, I don't think you could beat the CAFE score to top of climb of the Vz profile with any other method. Search CAFE on the forum for more background info!

Thank you for the kind words! I completed my Master's Thesis and use the Vz climb profile and predicted CAFE scores from fltplan.com (the winds matrix page off the navlog) for all my flight planning now. I still need to tweak the M20J advanced profile in fltplan, but my Aerostar profile is dead nuts on.

bumping this again, it is still available.....

Bump, to move this back up the page, any takers?

Ok, two questions at once, I will sell the oil temp probe separately, $75 shipping included. And the cluster gauge set is for a 12v airplane. Hope this helps! PM me for any more details, thanks everyone.

See my PM!

We are installing a JPI EDM-930! It is just about ready to fly....

SOLD, was: Up for sale is a Manifold Pressure/Fuel Pressure gauge as removed from our 1977 Mooney M20J for an engine instrumentation upgrade, it is Mooney p/n 660063-501, [Manufacturer is Aircraft Instruments and Development Inc, of Wichita, KS, Manuf p/n 21M102-2, s/n 7145]. See below: Just $149/OBO, and shipping is FREE if you use PayPal. PM me for any questions and thanks for looking! Norman Howell

This unit is SOLD, thanks Wojo! - Norm Up for sale is an Electronics International R-1-4 tachometer, STCed to replace the stock tachometer on the M20J with a McCauley prop per STC SA5924NM. See below: This unit's full part number is R-1-4-G30Y160G195R270, and its serial number is 23541. See the photo below: A copy of the STC/AML paperwork and the installation/operating instructions may be downloaded from the E.I. site, here: http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/R-1/R-1_Downloads.html This unit has the proper yellow arc (yellow LEDs) in the RPM sweep for the range of 1600-1950 RPM as marked on the M20J with the McCauley 2-blade propeller. Removed from our Mooney for a prop and engine instrumentation upgrade. $149/OBO. Free shipping if you pay with PayPal! Norm Howell

Edit: Unit below is SOLD, thanks everyone! - Norm Up for sale is the engine and fuel quantity cluster gauge set from our 1977 Mooney M20J, s/n 24-0042. The part number is 640281-503. See below: It also includes the CHT probe (p/n 880010-503) and the Oil Temp probe (p/n 880009-501), as shown below: $350/OBO, plus shipping. Shipping is FREE if you use PayPal! PM me for any other details, questions, or your purchase offer! Happy New Year...

JimR is correct, we did replace the entire overhead vent system on our 77 J with the dorsal inlet and eyeball vents. It is an extensive, expensive mod. The airflow really is nice though, and it is not nearly as noisy as the older overhead vent door.

+1 for fltplan.com . I have the Vz climb profile in my airplane model, and pretty accurate cruise and descent profiles in the advanced setup. It is right on the money. No other flightplan program comes close in terms of accurate and customizable performance predictions unless you spring for (very pricey) Jeppesen Flightstar Pro.

Hi Greg I have a good used OEM CHT probe from our 1977 M20J, it was removed for a JPI EDM-930 installation. How about $49 plus shipping?

Or best offer on this altimeter, come on guys! Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

You are welcome, sir. Always happy to share information.

Mooney used an in-flight torque meter reading to measure power developed by the engine, as installed, during the initial flight tests of the M20J, back in 1975ish. They did not do any "dyno" testing because it would not have yielded results relevant to certification of the airframe-engine combination. I personally spoke with Curt Lopresti on this and he said that he, "Pop" (as in Roy Lopresti) and the Taylors (Fen and Dorothy) were quite proud of the inflight instrumentation setup for the engine on the prototype M20J. I believe the horsepower resulting from the Mooney POH data for RPM and MP are pretty close to the mark for the Best Power and Best Economy tables.

We have installed Aeroleds on the wings and tail as well. They are awesome. We weighed the components for the old Hoskins strobes for the wings and tail (three small strobe power supplies) and lights versus the Aeroleds. The weight savings was 6 pounds. Yes you read that correctly. We were originally thinking about Aveo, but they only have used to have a Malaysian CAA authorization for their certificated LED position/strobe lights (looks like they did get US TSO, see below)....and you would have to cross-MIRV that into your local FAA office for approval. Also, their production schedule (i.e. when can I expect delivery) is.....well, it is was nebulous. When we called Dean at Aeroleds, we got straight answers, a [less recent] US FAA approval, and product delivered on schedule. *Edit: got some more updated information below, thanks Dan! I always try to post accurate info, and am not afraid to correct and edit any posts I make that later turn up to be inaccurate.*

Up for sale is an Aerosonic Encoding altimeter, P/N 101627-01544. It has a current yellow tag and calibration from Air Tech in Seattle, ready to install to replace your broken one! This is a bargain at $750 outright. [Edit Feb 21 2014, best offer accepted] PM me for details! Norman Howell

Hi Russ You are doing it right my friend, investigate one thing at a time and share your results. If you could post what resistance values you found on your old plugs that would be great. RAM aircraft seems to think fines provide a "little" better efficiency, see here: http://www.ramaircraft.com/Maintenance-Tips/Spark%20Plugs-Fine-Wire-vs-Massive.htm But George Braly from GAMI disagrees. I would base your decision on your current economic situation....Tempest fines will be about twice as expensive. You do have an engine analyzer, right? Can you record the data and share it?

I-man you are correct. There are some folks not on this thread who aren't fully convinced about what LOP means. We don't have GAMIs on ours yet. Our plan when the JPI 930 is installed is to do the following: Check for any induction leaks, fix as necessary Do a GAMI Lean Check and LOP mag check at 8000' DA Pull our old Champion spark plugs, measure and record all resistances, then install new Tempest fine wires Do another GAMI Lean Check and LOP mag check at 8000' DA Determine if there is any change to the GAMI spread due to the spark plugs. There sure "seemed" to be an improvement on our Aerostar left engine when we did this, but I didn't do a good baseline first, so I don't have hard data. The steps above will be my atonement. We'll post the results. If our GAMI spread is more than .5 gph, we get GAMIs.

Parker is right....and I added him to my list above in an edit.

Hi Russ Byron (Jetdriven), Scott S (KSMooniac) and Parker know what they are talking about. There are others on this forum, who don't. Having said that, if you have been running 50-100 degF ROP with cylinders below "about" 380 degF you probably haven't messed up anything. If there is a lot of flying at 50ROP and 430 degF cylinders, you "may" have caused more wear on the cylinders than would otherwise be possible. Not damage, just wear. I am pretty sure (but don't know for certain) that diehard LOPers aren't having to top their engines every 600-1000 hours. We have 1100 hours on our old-skool chrome cylinders, and compressions are all above 70 still. Byron mentioned, "climb at target" in other words the Target EGT method - see the attached pictures from KSMooniac's airplane. This is a Target EGT climb at WOT/2700 from KAAO, up to 8000'. Folks, this is how you do it. Russ, does "Target EGT" have meaning for you? The other picture is what happens when you leave the mixture full rich. At top of climb at 8000' with Target EGT the fuel flow is 13.9 gph, at full rich the FF is 15.6 gph. You are much more efficient climbing at WOT/2700/Target at 115 KIAS in an M20J (and using 500 fpm climb when the performance drops to that level, around 6000-7000 feet or so) than you are at Vy and WOT/2700/Full Rich, or the dreaded 25 square. The flights whose data are shown below were flown back to back by KSMooniac, with me in the right seat. The first climb (called Vz, by the way) leveled off 19 miles down path. The second Vy climb leveled off at 12 miles, then Scott cruised at his absolute best 65%LOP capability to the 19 mile point. Fuel used to 19 miles - exactly the same. Average speed to 19 miles (actually, velocity made good), 20 knots faster for the Vz climb. This is the kind of performance improvement you can get when you STC Your Brain. Any other questions? We are glad to help!

Skyking You may want to find a friend with a Cessna who gets the Cessna owners magazine. There is an article in there by Mike Busch on spark plugs. One interesting set of pictures compares the insulator of Champion fines versus Tempest. Remember the issue with insulator cracking is currently limited to Champion fine wires, not Tempest. Have a look at those pictures and share your own conclusion here! We are getting ready to do a back-to-back comparsion on older Champion massives (with unknown resistances at this point) and new Tempest fines. We'll post any findings here.

+1, we really would like to see pictures!!!

Byron wrote (regarding the "lean 'til rough, then enrichen until smooth" can wind up LOP): Norm, can you comment on the Lycoming IO-540-S1A5? How does it behave? I sure can. It behaves as you say, it is quite smooth until well lean of peak, and enrichening back to smoothness parks the engine at least 100 deg F LOP on the richest cylinder. This is a high compression TN engine, basically 1.5 Mooney 200 hp engines held to 29.5" max all the way to FL230 or so. One has GAMIs, the other does not.