Ned Gravel

Quote: Parker_Woodruff Your best "agent" is a Mooney Service Center for prebuy. The ones I like especially are Don Maxwell Aviation, G-Force, LASAR, and Wilmar.

Jason: I bought my E model five years ago. Searched on my own, but each time a prospect looked good, I called in a reputable local shop to do a pre-buy. I started negotiating on eight aircraft in total. I arranged for pre-buys at six locations in Canada and the US. We call these pre-purchase inspections (PPI) in Canada. In all cases, the shop knew they were working for me and they all charged me about $500 each to do. The first PPI was at my home field. Two prop strikes in the log books and the last one did not have the documentation that supported any claim of being properly repaired. I let that one go. Shop never even opened the cowl so they didn't charge me for the PPI. The second PPI was done in Calgary, Alberta and the owner refused to accept the list of airworthiness items I sent him. I walked. The third was done in Charlotte, NC and the owner was presented with a list worth about $17,000 to repair (all airworthiness issues). He refused. I walked. The fourth was done in Joplin, MO and the longerons (steel cage members) were rusted. The owner knew somebody, who knew somebody, who knew somebody who could fix it for one tenth the $12,000 quoted by the MSC. I walked. The fifth was done in Mobile, AL and this list was worth about $15,000. I never heard back from the owner. He walked. The sixth was done at the MSC I currently use and the list of items to address totalled about $14,000. This time the MSC owner and the seller's agent stepped in to convince the seller that he was going to lose the sale and pay for a whole pile of repairs on an aircraft he was trying to sell. So he agreed. I added another $6,000 of items from the annual that was conducted and I bought that aircraft. As a result of that transaction, I have a friend who looks after my Mooney and a reputable agent I can work with if I need one. the seller now has his new(er) J model maintained by the same shop. I also put deposits on all of these aircraft and I only ever actually laid eyes on the first and the last. Each PPI saved me $50,000. Lessons learned? 1. OK to look yourself, but engage a reputable shop to work on your behalf. MSC if possible and if they have a good reputation. A good shop is a far more important investment than a reputable buying agent. 2. No aircraft is worth the negotiation of a price if the seller feels no responsibility for the list of airworthiness issues. 3. Prospective Mooney buyers need to know a little bit about Mooneys before they go hunting. More knowledge, better experience. Where to learn? Spend some time with a reputable shop owner, prefereably an MSC, preferably one who owns a Mooney, preferably one who is passionate about the brand. They have all kinds of good advice and they prefer to offer it before you end up at their doorstep with some problem. Just my opinion based on my own first time search for a Mooney.

Quote: bradp Hi all, I just joined the forum today and posted a quick intro in that thread, but wanted to hound up some advice on searching out the right Mooney. I'm really enjoying reading the old posts in the Vintage forum. ....

OK, we all have them. Let's hear them. I'll start. My girl and I were visiting friends in Sudbury, about 90 Mooney minutes northwest of Ottawa and on the Sunday we were completing the runup to get ready and take the taxiway prior to departure. There was an AirOntario B1900 in the process of doing theirs too but we go to the hold short point first. Us: Sudbury Tower, FSWR holding short 04 and ready for departure. Twr: SWR, roger continue holding short 04, _______ on quarter mile final for 04. B1900 (copilot): Sudbury Tower, AirOntario 1234 just in behind the little one here holding short 04 also ready to go. Twr: AirOntario 1234, roger, continue holding short and you will be number 2 for departure. B1900 (this time the aircraft commander and not the copilot): Yeah, sorry about that. My buddy here thinks he's in a Big One. Us: Little one roger. Just remember guys, this is what you will be looking to buy when you retire. Just for fun, time the gear travel time on rotation. B1900: roger. The landing aircraft cleared the intersection of the two runways and tower cleared us to position and immediate departure. Two pumps of flaps and rotation at 75 mph. The gear came up with a snap and over the radio came the voice of the Beech pilot: "Nice." Sometimes, flying a Mooney gives you the opportunity to exercise your bragging rights just because it is a Mooney.

Quote: ErickR What is it about mooneys that require a mooney specific expert in order to do a proper annual? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just curious as this is my first airplane.

Quote: ErickR I am looking for an AH for my m20b, do I need to get an 8 degree tilt? I assume my panel would be the same as any m20c model.

Bob: I agree with the comments, and your original sentiment, to maintain trust in a shop that is essentially trustworthy. It is very difficult to find folks that care enough about what they do to your airplane and for you, that when you find a shop that does, you should trust your instincts and try and keep them. Now burning down your airplane might be sufficient reason to change all that, but if you still trust them, then the incident is just that, an incident. In your shoes, I would accept their offer. Who knows? There might be some new procedure for all shops to follow about using creepers within 20 feet (or whatever the finding turns out to be) that might save this very thing from happening elsewhere. What folks did not know yesterday, has been learned and can be applied tomorrow. And no one died. Keep the faith and Good Hunting.

Jim: Thanks for the support and no need for embarrassement. Dumb people don't learn from their own mistakes. Smart people do. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others. Do you realise how many more wise people we have created by writing our stories? The AnywhereMap and AV8OR manufacturers should pay us for this. In my current life, I am a quality professional. Not the type that beats people into following the rules. The type that fixes the rules so that people can follow them. We teach that learning from other's lessons is a really good way of doing things better. Sometimes, on really good days, we learn the best way to do something because we tried it and it worked....much more emotionally rewarding than learning from someone's mistakes. Those types of days are generally rare. "Wishing you skies below, runway ahead and lots of time to get out of the scrapes we may find ourselves heading for."

How dumb can one be? Well, pretty dumb. Picture a beautiful Sunday morning. My best (and only girl) is by my side. We are out to the home drome and meet some friends who decide on a 50 mile run to a cozy little airfield with a neat lunch counter for flying joy and some lunch. In the end only two aircraft go to Lachute. Our E model and a Cherokee 140. The Cherokee leaves before we do. After engine start and still in my parking spot, I try and turn on my AV8OR. I don't need it for this trip, but I just got a replacement cable that stays connected and I want to try it out. It won't turn on. So I left it. Do taxi checks. Get to runup point. Try and turn it on again. No joy. Do runup checks. Taxi to hold-short point. Do hold short checks. Do pre-takoff checks. Line up and airborne. Settled at 4,500' and try and turn it on again. No joy. Land at Lachute and enjoy girl, food, company and prepare to depart back to Rockcliffe. Repeat all the same process for the return. Still no joy on the AV8OR. By the time we cover the aircraft and complete the tiedown back in its parking spot, I have come to the realisation that I will probably have to send it back to the factory for some repair. It's only 9 months old. Cheeesh!! Get home and pull it out to examine it and there it is. The locking butting is in the locked position. It is meant to prevent a driver from fiddling with the unit while driving. That includes powering it up. Normally it is always off, but it is close enough to the power entry point that I probably flicked it playing with the new cord. Duh..... I D 10 T ("Eye Dee Ten Tee") problem. Well at least I don't have to send it back to the factory......

Quote: Amelia Well, I don't suppose I could reasonably hope that this paragon would have been located any closer to NC than Ontario! And so, the search goes on, for somebody near-ish, who LIKES Mooneys, and doesn't mumble ugly threats against my beautiful bird every time he skins his knuckles.

Quote: Amelia Do you know a GOOD MSC? Do share! And how I'd love grow to 5'6" with a 30" inseam!

I have scanned the two drawings that Amelia sent me. They are drawings 720115, sheets 1 and 2. About 500 Kb each. Please e-mail me if you want to receive them. As for the originals, if Amelia does not want them back, they should probably go to a good MSC. I have one in mind, but the decision is Amelia's Both documents say "proprietary information" on them, sort of preventing me from simply posting them to the site. I don't think the factory is going to have any heartache with this, if we treat the priviledge with some respect.

Mark: Some instrument shops can do exactly that. Just got to pick one that knows this part of the avionics business. I bought a new Attitude Indicator from Spruce when mine died in 2006, and I mistakenly ordered one with a zero degree setting. It was put in by the shop that looks after my Mooney and they told me it was at the wrong setting. Luckily, I found a local avionics shop that only does AI/DG/HSI and related instrumentation called Woodlawn Instruments. They charged me 80.00 Cdn to change the tilt to an eight degree tilt and they let me watch while the work was being done. Neat little setup. Just the thing to entertain an engineer.

Brandon & Jlunseth: I have a two blade Hartzell and it is very useful in acting as a speed brake on final, or just before the FAF, when the GUMPS check will push it to its max RPM. So, Brandon, yours should be even better. My gear also comes down between the IF and the FAF (or in the downind). I have learned that dropping them as fast as 140 mph is not difficult and they are great as speed brakes too. Have not had to do this very often and on bumpy days, I will generally drop them before crossing midfield when VFR prior to the turn on downwind. With the MP as low as 18" to 20" with the gear down, my Mooney is as slow as 120 mph in descent/approach. I need to drop MP to 15" or less to slow it down enough to deploy flaps at 100 mph. Then she is configured. 90 mph and stable for the remainder of the evolution.

Quote: Buster1 Cool! We can't go that slow even with gear and flaps (flaperons). Would have been different if some Vipers were there to help. Good thing for the A-10...nicely done.

Quote: 67M20F Anyone know if you could possably fit bigger tires on one? I would be willing to go fixed gear for the flight I needed the bigger tires, how big if any do you think you could go?

Since I put the Skytec starter / Concorde sealed battery combination in, I have had no problems with hot starts. Before that happened, I would do a flooded start if the hot start procedure did not work. Takes more time and cranks the engine more till it catches though.

Quote: RJBrown The inch a minute is for TURBOs only. That is what Rocket reccomended and thats how I flew it. On the normal Lycomings. I just nose over and keep the speed up as long as possible. Adjusting the mixture to keep from going too lean as I decend. Where I am based I land at 5880' so I am never real high on the power. At lower altitudes I keep it at 20" in the decent.

This is my approach after about 500 hours on my E model. Altitude hold - OFF. Reduce MP by 1" for every 100 fpm desired for the desent (doesn't really work beyond 5" for 500 fpm). No reductions below 20" in cruise descent looking for 350-500 fpm, depending on turbulence. For approach descent I do not reduce MP below 18" and looking for 500 fpm. More turbulence, less MP to keep IAS out of the yellow arc. No turbulence, IAS in yellow arc OK so long as I stay below redline. Prop stays at 2500 RPM.

For me, a hot start is any start within 40 minutes of the previous shutdown (in the summer) and 20 minutes in the winter. Shut down is always done at 1200 RPM with mixture pulled to idle cutof. Hot start is basically "touch nothing and crank." HOT ENGINE START Cowl Flaps OPEN Master ON Throttle Set at 1100-1200 RPM (as per shutdown) Propeller Full Fine Mixture Idle Cut Off Check “Clear Prop” Mixture Right Hand Ready Magnetos Crank 15-20 turns Engine Catches Full Rich Throttle 1100 RPM Oil Pressure & Temp “GREEN” Mixture Full Lean for taxi It normally takes 5 to 8 blades.

Quote: skyking I'll bite: How many Canadians does it take to change a lightbulb?

I think I saw a video of someone getting the Mooney logo as a tattoo last year in Oshkosh?

Quote: Amelia Wow- I feel SO popular all of a sudden. .. If I send the 1.5 drawings to one guy, the 3" ones to another, could y'all then pass them along to whoever else wants 'em?

All: My experience mirrors Immelman's. Had a Concorde RG-35AXC installed in June of 2007. Never looked back.

Scott: I switched to the Concorde sealed two years ago. That battery and the Skytec NL starter combination is awesome. Haven't had any difficulty since. Cranks great - even when the battery is really cold (although I have warmed up the oil with an electric heater).