Ned Gravel

From any model - so long as the seats fit in a '65E model. Have you found some within a Mooniac's price range?

Vref: I think the issue of three point installations in earlier model Mooneys is the position of the steel cage members. They may not be situated to allow this, something which was corrected in later designs (I think). From an engineering standpoint, the shoulder belt needs to be afixed to an attach point that can actually take the load at that point in the event of repid deceleration of the airframe. I am not certain that the steel cage provides any such points behind and above the rear seats of earlier model Mooneys. (But I have been known to be wrong before)

Yeah.... I want this upgrade too (also for a '65 E). Hard finding them though and the factory price is something like $3,500 for them.

Dave: I can feel for your situation too. It may help to appreciate that some folks may not understand how efficient, fast, etc our Mooney's really are. To them, getting up in the air, looking down at the ground, feeling the little bumps and whirls as the aircraft lifts off and climbs above the airport - are all they seek. Just flying. They may not care if it's a 172 or a Mooney. Just flying. Great gift idea, Dave. I would be interested in knowing how this turns out for you and your friend. Been there myself and had to go the 172 route. But it was worth the expression on his face.

Quote: DaV8or I keep hoping for some sort of FLIR or night vision system to come to GA. Or more likely, a synthetic vision system that has the detail of MS simulators with buildings and things. These things might help me feel better about night flight.

Chris: I am not certain why a listing would have zero as its time since overhaul, but my engine shop put at least five hours on it while mounted in their test stand at the end of the overhaul last year. Did not count as logged airframe time however. The first airframe hours on that engine were logged by me overhead the airfield and in the first hours of burn-in time. If yours is a zero time engine, you are going to get stuck with its burn-in. Does a C model need a Storm Scope? Probably not if your mission profile is not hard IFR. If it is, then the Stormscope is really there to tell you how good (or bad) your weather flight planning is. I am not one of those that will try and duck in between CB cells based on the information that a Stormscope would provide. Just not for me. YMMV. Does a C model need an STEC 30? You bet. That little puppy will fly the airplane for you when your hands are busy trying to do other things that need your attention in the "aviate - navigate - communicate" order of our business. Great lifesaver. Doesn't matter if its even the simple wing-leveller, Brittain A/P or up to the STEC and Bendix KAP models. Very useful tool. If you are dealing with a broker who pulls emotional tricks as you describe - save yourself the aggravation right now and consider walking away. No one needs that when buying something upon which your life may depend. JMO. Maintaining a Mooney costs between half again and twice as much as a Cherokee (don't know about the Grumman). The cost differential is based on "tight" versus "loose". Our Mooneys are extremely efficient aircraft and that efficiency comes from its design. When you open the cowl on a Cherokee, the baffling is open and the engine is not tightly cowled. Not so on the Mooney. Skinnier is faster. Add the complexity of constant speed props (which only the Arrow has for the older model Cherokees) and RG (which only the Arrow has) and your price differential will drop considerably when compared to only an Arrow. Compared to the others, maintaining the C model will cost much more. In essence, your increased maintenance cost is what you pay for speed and efficiency. In the end, your decision should be one that you are very happy with. The rest of us are somewhat biased. Hope this helps.

Bryan: Got it all. Well done and it looks good. I have forwarded it off to my frlendly MSC, who also owns an E model and he and I will probably be creating something similar in mine this summer.

I am like Ken and Jolie: 120 for gear down over the airfield midfield. Reduce MP to 15" and turn on downwind. Abeam the numbers down to 12" and slight nose up to bleed the speed for 100 mph. Two pumps of flaps and down to 90 mph, turn base and start the descent. Trim up to keep it at 500 fpm. Turn final and one more pump of flap - more trim up. 500 fpm and 80 mph. Last pump of flap and full trim up and cross the fence near 75 mph. Level off over the threshold and wait for her to settle - hold the nose a little high listen for the chirp of the stall warning horn. When the mains touch - full aft elevator to hold the nose off until elevator has no more authority. Aaahhh...... Didn't that feel good?

DaV8or: If you have talked to Paul at LASAR, he has already given you the best advice possible, and that advice has already been echoed by Cruiser. Get a good MSC and let them "go to town" for you on your prospective buy. The pre-purchase inspections I commissioned on five Mooneys through the fall and winter of 2004 each cost me about $500 and they each saved me about $50,000. Good MSC folks will work for you. They will make sure they (and you) know EXACTLY what needs doing and what works now for any Mooney you get into their shop. Best possible information you could ever have on the decision to buy. IMO.

DaV8or: I agree with Jolie on this one. If you see the trend lines in Mike Busch' articles, engines at or near 2000 have relatively few instances of trouble - all other things being equal of course. When I bought my E model it had 1630 hours on the engine and after research, especially with the Mike Busch articles and discussion with my AME, I was ready to go beyone 2000 hours, "on condition." It was running very smooth, and all four jugs had been recently replaced. It was only after the inspection of an oil leak at the bottom aft through bolt for number 2, did we have a closer look to find that the crank was binding when torque-to-spec was applied at that bolt. The engine was talking to us and at 1963 hours and it was time. It was pulled for the major. Two weeks later the engine shop told us that the case had a 7 inch stress crack developing from the point of the oil leak. After nearly 100 hours on the new engine, I still have another 100 or so to go before I feel as confident as I did before the engine started talking to me. Post overhaul blues is another aspect of Mike Busch' writings. The trend lines for problems are relatively high at this point in the engine's life. Hope this helps.

Quote: flight2000 I take it your heading to Iwakuni? I just left Okinawa last summer to attend ILE (old CGSC) at Fort Leavenworth. I leave for the desert in July. You'll really like Japan. Brian

George: Congratulations on being offered the command. Many of us so priviledged consider this to be a near-sacred trust. There are very few honours bestowed on someone that equal command. But it is obviously going to come with a price (as if there weren't enough already). If I were to offer a suggestion, it would be to try and spend your time to find someone worthy to look after your bird, perhaps permanently, but look after nonetheless. That way, you are not concentrating on the loss of your Mooney, but concentrating on finding her a good home. Shifts the focus slightly but molifies the hurt. Also sets you up for a good return to Mooney ownership when your tour is over. Just my suggestion. Good luck.

Jax and Dave: Welcome to the world of Mooney ownership. Congratulations to both of you. I too remember the excitement of those first days. Your next steps will include increasing continuous chest-puffing and ear-to-ear grins as you consider how well your airplane performs when compared to others on your field. Finally it will turn to mind-numbing wonder at how we got lucky enough to own one. Try and keep a lid on it, though will you? BTW: Post some photos of your birds so the rest of us can all ogle too.

Ah Bryan: Good work on staying in the "those that will" category. Been there. I was out in Februrary doing circuits after a near two-month hiatus. First circuit. Check gear down, do a GUMPS check, check gear down again, and do another GUMPS check just to be sure. Still not sure going over the fence. Scared myself silly over the numbers, but the handle was vertical. I was still scared until the wheels actually touched down. Why? The time away made the situation less familiar and there was much less muscle memory in my cockpit flows. No matter what the physical indicators told me, I was questioning my own instincts and it took three circuits before I felt comfortable enough to just relax and enjoy the exercise.

So Russ lives near where I am teaching this week. I contact him and ask if he is going to be in town and we talk about flying and Mooneys over an appropriate consomation. He says he is, and I should call him on his cell phone. Near noon I do. I tell him which hotel I am teaching in, and Lo and Behold Gentle Reader - he is taking some certification training in the same hotel. On the same floor. Not really apparent to me until I note the tall feller talking to someone on his cell phone as I walk by one of the training room doors and yes (big guffaw from the assembled multitude) it is Russ talking to me. In the room next door. I intend on enjoying that libation tonight. Nothing like two Mooney drivers telling each other their favourite lies about their flying techniques in the world's most efficient certified four banger. Aaahhh. Life is good.

Here is an oldie but goldie: Three most useless things to a pilot: Runway behind Sky above About three seconds ago ........ (or Fuel in the bowser)

Quote: meddesign on takeoff on the runway one is not going as fast. but further .... is this how a governor begins to fail, not holding RPM precisely? Or is it a simple cleaning that is needed, etc. How do they fail, what is to look for. I have heard of sending out for testing any shops one might use? Have you ever got one back that did not need overhaul, that would be the shop to use. Don B A&P

Quote: Piloto The 2900 paper increase gives you 14.5 ponds/HP while the Missile gives you 10.6pounds/HP. This translate to a 50% increase in climb performance over 10,000 feet for the Missile. In aviation power is everything. José

Quote: meddesign I have a question. I assume my governor should be set to give red line at takeoff climb. When I level out it then will over speed. If it is set to red line in level full power cruse it will not get red line at take off climb. Is this normal? 70E IO360A1A two blade Hartzel, set up by Hartzel.

Quote: jezzie Micheal, I tried what you suggested do you have URL that I can try Eldon

John: I think you have the advantage on me in this regard. You are used to the maintenance environment and you will probably find that you speak the same language as the folks working on your aircraft. Good luck finding a good one and keep us posted on how that works out for you. Success stories are nice to read. My own MSC is 90 Mooney minutes away from my home drome.

Quote: jhelleberg I plan to contact the local MSC and see what their policy is for owner assistance. Are MSC typically open to this kind of thing? I want to discuss the candidate aircraft I am looking at with a Mooney mechanic to help me to judge which things are more or less expensive to repair/add to an aircraft to create the aircraft I am looking for. Thanks for the reply! John

On mine, two pumps is for take off (practice pumping without looking and then check the result), third pump on base (if I need it) and fourth pump on final (depending on the crosswinds of course). I have heard that the first two pumps increase lift on our wings. The third and fourth increase drag.

John: A good MSC is your best investment in knowledge and protection when looking for a Mooney. You will learn from them. But if the local one does not like you participating in the maintenance of our own aircraft, you may have to find another shop.

Quote: DaV8or I have never flown a plane with hydraulic flaps. How do they work and how reliable are they? Are they easy to use? It seems like anything with hydraulics means leaks. Is it worth it to convert to electric?